USA for Africa and “The Greatest Night in Pop”

Kristin Nilsen 0:00

I remember when your grandma watched the member drive on PBS and joined so she could get that sweet Peter Paul and Mary concert on VHS. Now you can do the same thing with the pop culture Preservation Society. Each of our episodes is created with the help of listeners like you, and you can become a financial supporter of the PCPs over on patreon.com to help us pay the bills and keep doing what we love. To show our appreciation we'll send you welcome gifts and give you access to bonus content. Like video recordings of our episodes after the episode discussions and blooper reels from the cutting room floor. Just go to patreon.com pa t ar e o n type pop culture Preservation Society into the search bubble and choose the level of support that feels right for you. And if you're not able to contribute at this time, remember that listening is the most important form of support you could ever give thank you

Carolyn Cochrane 0:54

it wouldn't have had the same impact maybe that it's having right now because at least for us you know we'll go on and on about Gen X but to be the age I am now at the adult I am and going back and looking at this and also and I'll talk about this in a little while that the state of our country right now in the world where we are to have this come out and remind us oh maybe world no

Michelle Newman 1:17

that's really smart. You're right yeah.

Speaker 1 1:21

And no sound like we're saying come on get this watch will make you

Kristin Nilsen 1:38

we welcome to the pop culture Preservation Society. The podcast for people born in the big wheel generation who can see a photo of love's baby socks and still smell it.

Carolyn Cochrane 1:49

We believe our Gen X childhoods gave us unforgettable stories characters and and if we don't talk about them, they'll disappear like Marshall will and Holly on a routine expedition. And

Michelle Newman 2:01

today we'll be saving the story behind that compulsively single song that made a brighter day or so many. We are the world. I'm Carolyn.

Kristin Nilsen 2:12

I'm Kristen.

Michelle Newman 2:12

And I'm Michelle and we are your pop culture preservationists.

Soon after Band Aid released that other compulsively and heartbreaking single song, in December of 1984, Harry Belafonte decided to create an American benefit single for African famine relief, specifically in Ethiopia, as well as for hunger relief in the United States. We are the world was recorded in January of 1985. And released just two months later in March, it topped music charts throughout the world and became the fastest selling us pop single in history. With sales in excess of 20 million copies. It is the ninth best selling physical single of all time, certified quadruple platinum and its awards include four Grammys one American Music Award and a People's Choice Award. Thank you Wikipedia. What are your memories of this? Do you guys remember singing it and the story behind it? Or? I

Kristin Nilsen 3:22

remember no story whatsoever. No, I remember the song is just being ubiquitous. And so that made it kind of like a gnat flying around my head because it was everywhere. It was everywhere everywhere on the radio all the time and they didn't dislike the song by any means. But I don't think I gave it another thought because it was so ubiquitous.

Michelle Newman 3:42

I remember very specifically feeling like this is so cool like owning kind of the USA for Africa part like I love I still have my my big EP of dude, I know it's Christmas. I mean, you guys know I was all about the British Invasion artists of the of 1983 84. But I can remember kind of feeling I don't know the kind of pride and that ownership of this is USA for Africa. This is now we did it to like cowboy hat. And when I say singable I don't think I think I have forgotten how singable until we watch this documentary we're

Carolyn Cochrane 4:19

about to talk about stop singing It's been even today getting ready for this episode that's I was humming along and singing along my memories of the song are directly related I think to the video like when I hear that song I can see the music video in my head I could tell you the mannerisms that people had during it yeah so the video is what really stays in my mind in terms of what I remember when

Michelle Newman 4:45

and that sweatshirt Diana Ross is wearing that shade in my mind too. I wonder if you can find those. I bet you can I bet people have remapped on be

Kristin Nilsen 4:52

such like throwback imagine like going for a walk and seeing somebody with that sweatshirt and they and

Michelle Newman 4:57

it's such a sign of 1985 They're all like x x LS you?

Kristin Nilsen 5:03

Like, come down to your thighs. Remember, you'd wear your sweatshirts like they were like quadruple x's. Yeah,

Michelle Newman 5:09

well there's so much more to this story than we knew. And just this past January 39 years later Netflix share the story behind the magical night recording we are the world and I truly fascinating documentary called the greatest night in pop. And it is a story you guys it is one that comes with conflict and plot twists, tone, and at times, way too many main characters. Right. And that's we're gonna be talking about today we're going to be kind of sharing our own take on some of the stories and some of the just behind the scenes nuggets that we had no idea where how many nuggets, oh my gosh, too many for us to talk about. So again, we're gonna say a million times watch it. But this is going to be super fun. So as the documentary as the documentary begins, you hear Lionel Richie who kind of narrates current day Lionel Richie, who kind of narrates us through and takes us through this whole story. You hear his voice tell us, the greatest artists of a generation came together with all of our ego, with all of our talent to save some lives. There was nothing more chaotic than trying to rope this creative ball of energy together. This was history happening right now.

Carolyn Cochrane 6:29

So who knew that watching a documentary about the making of where the world would solidify my faith and a higher power? You got? Oh, here we are. Oh my god. Okay, what? Listen, as we talk about it. Today, as we reflect on this documentary, we learned so many things that had to happen at just the right moment. Yeah, that's true. All Stars had to align, figuratively and literally, and you will have no doubt by the end of our conversation and for sure, watching this documentary that the universe most definitely orchestrated this amazing moment in pop culture history. I would put my wife on it. That is

Kristin Nilsen 7:08

a really interesting take Carolyn, yeah, just the timing and the sliding doors, so many sliding doors. There comes a time when we hate to say when the word

Michelle Newman 7:23

must come together as one. All right, so let's get into it. Let's get into the story.

Kristin Nilsen 7:28

Yes, so the seat of where the world took place in the office of a talent manager named Ken craigan, his employees said that they were summoned to a mandatory meeting with no information given they had no idea what was happening, but they knew it was big, and that was confirmed when they walked in and saw Ken craigan seated next to Harry Belafonte. Harry Belafonte was an elder statesman of the music industry. He wasn't on the charts anymore, but he was universally beloved. And he was also very well known as an activist, especially during the Civil Rights Movement. He was outspoken and worked side by side with Dr. Martin Luther King. And at this stage of his activism, he felt that poverty was a civil rights issue. And he thought it was being overlooked, especially in Africa, which frankly, he thought it's just too far away for people to care about. He was also famous for recruiting fellow artists to his causes. And he used a celebrity in service of the greater good even saying at MLK is March and Washington in 1963. Artists have a valuable function in any society, since it is the artist who reveals the society itself. So now I'm starting to understand Harry Belafonte as Oh, no, he just uses his persona as an entertainer to achieve a higher good, right for you, you and me. Right? It's free to be you and me. Yeah, that's exactly right. So that's why he was in Ken Craig ins office that day. He was inspired by the success of Live Aid. And he wanted to do a live concert to help feed people in Africa. And the first person he wanted to call was Lionel Richie. Why? Why Lionel Richie, Lionel was at the top of the charts. He was Ken Krakens client, and he was black. And Harry Belafonte said to him, we have white people saving black people, but we don't have black people say black right? That is a problem. We need to save our own people from hunger. And he of course was not speaking of black people in their communities. Of course, he was talking about the famous faces out there working for a cause and he wanted to gather black people from the entertainment industry to save their own people. And da I never noticed that. But when we start to talk about the people that are on this song, it will be obvious that there is there is more of a cause going on with the cause, which is very admirable. So in that meeting, the concert is turned into a single Lionel Richie says yes. And he knows the perfect person to make the single happen. He's Let's call Quincy. He's talking of course, about Quincy Jones. And in a history making move Quincy says, I'm seeing Michael tomorrow. I know exactly. I'll see what's off and

Michelle Newman 10:09

just yeah, that Michael

Kristin Nilsen 10:12

was the universe, but that's the universe. Yeah. Who is this? Michael? We're talking about Michael Jackson. And thriller was at the top of he was thriller was dominating the culture at this moment. The other person Quincy thinks needs to be in that room is Stevie Wonder. Stevie says yes, but never calls them back. This will be the first time Yes, Stevie Wonder will gum up the works on this? Well, the clock is ticking.

Carolyn Cochrane 10:34

So originally, Quincy Jones was hoping that Stevie Wonder like you said Kristen would be a part of writing the song. But as you also told us, he won't return any phone calls. Isn't that that road? Yes. And Lionel even says, like, Stevie calls you back? Basically, when Stevie calls you back on Stevie time. So it becomes Michael Jackson and Lionel who are gonna write this song. So Lionel gets in his car, and he heads over to Michael Jackson's house, which we can imagine is just what we think. And even Yeah,

Michelle Newman 11:06

you guys in this documentary, you see it. They, they had cameras in there,

Carolyn Cochrane 11:11

the camera footage and audio throughout this documentary that they have of things happening in real time, man, it's just crazy. It's amazing.

Michelle Newman 11:20

And why did it take 39 years? Yeah. I agree. Well, where's the man?

Carolyn Cochrane 11:25

I don't know. But at the same time, I think that it's, it wouldn't have had the same impact maybe that it's having right now. Because, at least for us, you know, we'll go on and on about Gen X, but to be the age I am now at the adult I am and going back and looking at this and also and I'll talk about this in a little while that the state of our country right now in the world where we are, to have this come out and remind us

Michelle Newman 11:52

oh, maybe world now that's really smart. Right? Yeah. Deeper

Carolyn Cochrane 11:56

part. So who knows? So yes, so we have footage of Michael Jackson's home we have audio of they're going back and forth. Lionel and Michael talking about the song and coming up with the lyrics and, and the music. And what's interesting, and Lionel talks about this in the documentary is first there's really no sense of urgency for this. They're kind of goofing off, he's working flannels working on some of his stuff, Michael on his Michaels hanging out with his menagerie of animals. Line Lionel is not super fond of so Michael is encouraging Lionel to hold bubbles that

Michelle Newman 12:34

that was so that was like so organic, right? Yes.

Kristin Nilsen 12:37

Yes. Like he's like, No, I'm not holding your chip. Yeah. Because like no,

Michelle Newman 12:42

I just love this kind of info though. This is what I'm here for you guys because like we see in Tiger Beat we see in all these magazines bubbles, the chip. But now we know that when Lionel Richie was in his home away from cameras away from I'm taking bubbles on the red carpet away from there's no follow up bubbles.

Kristin Nilsen 13:02

It was truly levels is real. And like,

Michelle Newman 13:04

why wasn't there a fight between bubbles and another animal in the kitchen or

Kristin Nilsen 13:08

so is the minor bird and John? Because he hears Lionel hears people fighting downstairs and he's very concerned and Mike is like, no, it's just the minor bird fighting with the dog.

Michelle Newman 13:18

My number bird. This is like a rare like only a bird you see. Like, like an endangered species.

Kristin Nilsen 13:28

I'm sure and I just have this image of the of the chimp trying to, like crawl into Lionel Richie's lap you like no.

Carolyn Cochrane 13:37

Oh, God, good. Well, I think that things might have gotten a little more serious when they found out from Ken craigan that, oh, by the way, we need to record this song in 10 days. And there gonna be a lot of people involved in this. This is going to be a star studded, spectacular. So chop, chop, chop, we're gonna we need this and yes, he's like, I need this now. So all of a sudden we're in kind of, okay, get to it mode, which I read in an article this isn't in the documentary, but I loved hearing it was the Lionel said that's how he works best. He said his add ADHD that he has worked so much better when you're he's under the gun. So that's when everything's firing. And he said, that's kind of when the magic started happening. He said they became possessed. They like, you know, we're going back and forth. They it just kind of spilled out of them. So much so that at one point, they're singing, and they're like this is it and humming along and then Lionel hears the sound coming from somewhere else kind of like a heavy breeze. Oh my god, he looks over. And lo and behold, Michael's boa constrictor who had been everything. Miko hadn't been able to find out about what emerges when he hears this melodic tune and Mike was like, this is this has to be like a sneaky snake he wants to say hi To Lionel and Lionel this.

Michelle Newman 15:02

And you're right, Carolyn. It's so funny. Michael's like, you are missing you. Can you imagine? No. Oh, by the way, I've been missing my boa constrictor. Yes.

Carolyn Cochrane 15:16

But he's the murderer. Oh my god, we have kind of exactly the finishing touches on this masterpiece.

Michelle Newman 15:22

It's like the men with the pipes and the basket and the Cobras come up. Can you imagine

Kristin Nilsen 15:27

letting someone into your home when you don't know where your boa constrictor you

Michelle Newman 15:31

guys I have the I have goosebumps on goosebumps right now and not in a good nipple lightning way.

Kristin Nilsen 15:36

And you shouldn't be like, I'm sorry, you can't come in today. Don't know where the snake is. That wouldn't

Carolyn Cochrane 15:40

be Michael Jackson. No, no, it is so interesting. We learned from Lionel that he and Michael go back aways. They go back to Motown days both fronted fair and you know, bands and all that kind of thing. And he shares the fact that when Michael Jackson first got his driver's license, the first place that Michael Jackson drove was to Lionel Richie's house. I find this interesting because Lionel says, Michael was too afraid to drive on the highway. So he knew the back roads of how to get to Lionel's house and all through LA. So the funny juxtaposition of this is I can have a boa constrictor roaming free and a chimp. Let's hope he has all of his shots. Some rare bird, dog. I live freely like that, but I can't drive on a highway.

Michelle Newman 16:26

Exactly. Well, I think we all know Michael Jackson, you know, he has quirks. He's an interesting fellow. Right? You guys, I have to ask her a question. And I think Carolyn the senior just described of Lionel going to Michael's home and just hearing Lionel today. Talk about these experiences in these times. Did you guys get just a different type of respect and appreciation for Lionel Richie. I know I absolutely. Love the way he still talks with so much respect about not just all these people involved, but the process of it.

Kristin Nilsen 16:59

Yeah. And it's like the dad of we're the world. Yeah,

Michelle Newman 17:03

I mean, Quincy had a different type of role. And well, when we talk about the recording coming up, we're gonna talk about how Lionel was had to be more the teacher while Quincy was the principal, right? But, I mean, we all love Lionel Richie. We knew that but I don't know. I don't know that I knew I will you get when you watch this documentary listeners, you're gonna get a just a different insight to his character and who he is. And I love that agreed.

Carolyn Cochrane 17:25

Oh, I totally agree. I mean, I he's a genius. And he recognized. Just I guess I'm getting a little woowoo here in my universe stuff. But he recognized how special this was and how serendipitous some of these moments were when they were kind of happening, at least as he reflects on it. And I just thought, yeah, I again, I'm gonna watch American Idol with a different a different lens. Now he used to kind of annoy me as I don't even watch it. But now I want to not anymore. I am fascinated with him. Well, here's what's amazing. So you know, they finished writing it. Yeah, because Quincy is like, you better get it to me. We have eight days before recording. He, they get it to Quincy, they do a quick like cassette recording, get it to him. And what's so cool, and I'm not going to spoil it. We have the actual audio of Quincy in this documentary telling someone how he felt when he heard it, and it for the first time and it's again, you're like the universe? Oh, cuz it's that's kind of what he felt like. Alright, so he says, Yes, let's go with it. We're going to put a demo together really quick. We have to get 40 cassettes out, which they do to the artists who are going to be singing on this. That happens four days before the record. Yeah, it's

Michelle Newman 18:44

crazy. I mean, if you back up just a little bit, who are we going to send these cassettes to? Right, right. So now they need to start getting artists on board, which as you can imagine, could just be a logistical nightmare. But Lionel Richie was hosting the American Music Awards on January 28 1985, which back then the AMA's were a huge deal much bigger than they are now. And they knew that the event the AMA's is going to bring all the top artists to LA. So they think well, let's find out who's coming who's going to be here. And who can sell the most records, which I think is so interesting, because that obviously meant they had to make choices. Because some of the stars were just starting out. Some of these artists were just starting out in 1985, you guys and today 39 years later, we're like, how could you choose, you know, between this one and this one. So naturally, they start there who's going to be there? But one of the first people they really wanted was Bruce Springsteen, because this is 1985 and in 1985 Bruce Springsteen is top of the world and I love this documentary because we see present day Bruce Springsteen, who still looks so good. Come in in his cowboy boots, and those are his words. In 1985. I was top of the world. He's finishing his Born in the USA tour. The night before. So he's finishing that tour on January 27. And I guess he had this, this rule that he doesn't fly the day after a concert. I mean, a day after a tour ends. But he agreed, because in his words again, he says famine relief was super important to him. And so he's like I'm in. So now they all think we've got Springsteen, we could call Bob Dylan. And now it basically becomes a wish list. So we start getting onboard, people like Billy Joel, Willie Nelson, Tina Turner, Diana Ross, Kenny Loggins, Smokey Robinson. They're all agreeing to do this. And don't forget, they've already got Michael and Lionel, Harry and Stevie. It's truly becoming like a 1984. Music Hall of Fame.

Carolyn Cochrane 20:43

Yeah, that was incredible. And, yeah, they're going through that list of who's going to be in town to for the AMA's. And so the fact that that event is happening, I'm sorry, I'll make a sound like angels. Write all of these artists in one place at one time, which, you know, happened only a couple times a year.

Michelle Newman 21:04

And the fact that they choose between Madonna and Cyndi Lauper makes 2020 For me, just my jaw just dropped. Ben, how do you choose between McDonald's?

Kristin Nilsen 21:16

And at the time, they might have felt equal, but over time, that's not and I don't want to minimize Cyndi Lauper by any means. She's had a flourishing career. But she didn't become the queen of pop. Right, right. Exactly what I still don't understand. To this day I wondered it then I thought I thought it was going to get the answer when I watched the documentary and I did not get the answer. Why is Dan Ackroyd on that recording? And why is he there?

Michelle Newman 21:41

And why is he one of the first at least in the documentary Christmas. He's one of the first people that they say so and so knew she wanted Dan Ackroyd? Yes.

Kristin Nilsen 21:50

But why? Why do you want to enter code? She never says,

Carolyn Cochrane 21:53

But wasn't he a Blues Brother? Yeah. He was on the charts. I mean, weren't Weren't they maybe

Michelle Newman 22:00

foe? That's not was Yeah, exactly. And you hold him up at the same level. Bom Springsteen,

Kristin Nilsen 22:14

Jason Elroy in the room, made

Carolyn Cochrane 22:19

it fun. It's the ultimate crossover now of you know, we've got Ghostbusters, and all of that we have all these people in the room.

Kristin Nilsen 22:25

I just wondered at the time to do the people in the room also go Well, hi, Stan. Ghostbuster here.

Carolyn Cochrane 22:33

There's probably more to that story. You're right because we don't know like you Ackroyd had something on somebody like you don't put me in this video I'm gonna expose your whatever or what,

Kristin Nilsen 22:43

especially because they did not edit out they included in the documentary The woman saying and I really want to do

Carolyn Cochrane 22:51

well, maybe maybe this long answer like for people that want to know why it's because a woman who worked really wanted him

Michelle Newman 22:59

I feel like it's about the same level as Miko is me being in the room and going and I really want Captain Kangaroo. Yes. It's a joke. Almost. He

Kristin Nilsen 23:07

doesn't have any talent. That's not what we're saying. He's not a pop star. He's a comedic actor. It's not the same thing.

Michelle Newman 23:14

You guys. It's so funny, though. You're right. We're going to talk in a minute about how these are top notch stars. And even they started getting really vulnerable and kind of looking around like I'm not worthy. I'm not worthy. How do you make dinner?

Kristin Nilsen 23:27

Tonight, I looked at his face. And it did look a little bit like Oh, shit, we're in the back door. So it's now four days until the recording and that's when Stevie Wonder shows up. And he's like, I'm here. Let's write a song. I totally. They're like, dude, to go a little too late. We are recording the demo to send to the artist today. For Stevie is confused. He's not sure what he's supposed to do. Somehow he's able to participate in the making of the demo but no songwriting credit goes to Stevie because he wouldn't answer his damn phone call guys. That's

Michelle Newman 24:03

such a mistake. Stevie Oh,

Carolyn Cochrane 24:06

but would we have had We are the world the one that we have, which is,

Michelle Newman 24:09

like we're gonna hear in a minute we would have had we are the loudest about

Kristin Nilsen 24:15

so the song is very simple to learn because all of the courses will be sung in unison. There are no parts to learn just the melody. Everybody's singing the same thing. But if you recall, and what this documentary shows us in stark relief, is that there are numerous solos to divvy up amongst the 45 wildly different and presumably somewhat egocentric performers. And for that Quincy calls in a vocal arranger named Tom Baylor. He is a white guy raised in a black church that Quincy met long ago. He always assumed he was black, and then they met face to face. He's like your white guy, and they become artistic brothers. So Tom Baylor puts every performance name on an index card and he lays them all out on the floor. He has to decide which performer will deliver each line, in their style, in their sound and in their key. And they have to sell their style and their sound in not even a full line. Most of the solos are just half of a line with another artist finishing the line. So he has to match those artists up who goes with whom. And some of those pairings were really surprising. And Dionne Warwick was like, why are you putting me with Willie Nelson? This makes no sense. I know Tom Baylor he studied each and every performer he went deep, analyzing their sound to create a synergy that would elevate the listening experience. He says this is just so interesting to me. He says For instance, Bruce Springsteen sound was dirty. So he follows that up with Kenny Loggins who had a very clean sound. Tina Turner was low and warm. So she gets paired with Steve Perry, whose range was very high and bright. Cindy loppers vocal was very high and forceful. So she's bookended between Huey Lewis and Kim Carnes who were more gravelly and laid back. And okay, I just have to circle back to Steve Perry for a minute because we really get to hear a lot of Steve Perry's voice in this without journey. And we just devote a moment of appreciation to the voice of Steve Perry.

Michelle Newman 26:20

I have notes literally in my notes, it says Steve Perry nipa lightening up on nipple line by Napa like I'm doing

Kristin Nilsen 26:27

it right now. It's when stripped down, you hear him isolated in this documentary in a way that you would never hear with him on stage. I mean, obviously, he's out front, and he's amazing. But to hear it stripped down like this. It's so high. It's so full of force and emotion. I remember my dad one time my dad doesn't. He's a singer, right? But he doesn't know pop music that well. And he was watching a journey video and with Liam when he was like five, and my dad was like, ouch. Like, this guy's Oh, yeah, he couldn't believe how, how amazing that sound was and how difficult it must have been to sing like that. And I

Carolyn Cochrane 27:07

think during the documentary, I felt like the the other artists were kind of in awe of it too. Like, you know, looking in, but yeah, like, that's something I noticed. Yeah.

Michelle Newman 27:27

Okay, so I could spend the next hour taking you through all the incredible behind the scenes stories and a good deal of the drama that transpired that night between 11:30pm and about eight o'clock AM when many of the artists basically turned into kindergarteners, you guys, unruly, impatient. They were tired, sweaty, and selfish. They were also unbelievably kind and supportive. Many of them, not all of them, many of them. But for that, you guys, you need to watch this documentary. I don't know if we've recommended it yet or not. But it's on Netflix the greatest. Instead, what I think we should do is I'm going to pick a handful of my favorite things that happened during the recording session, we can talk about them and then you guys throw in things that other things that you loved about because it's just chock full of goodness, you guys chock full. Okay, so one of the first things is that there's they're all arriving and congregating. It's like stars. They're just like us, right? Because many of these award winning artists who you might think are like so self assured and cocky almost. They're starstruck. Yeah. They're like, that's Bruce Springsteen. They're looking around. And it's like, it's the most incredible cocktail party or high school reunion imaginable. And watching the stock. It truly feels like we're there. Yeah, because you get to hear footage of just the way they're talking to each other, right? Like Cyndi Lauper says, this is current day Cyndi Lauper. So, you guys they if you haven't seen it, they bring back some of the current stars like I told you already. Bruce Springsteen, we're gonna see Huey Lewis, we're gonna see Cyndi Lauper obviously, Lionel Richie. Kenny Loggins? Yes. And Cyndi Lauper says she remember saying, I felt like I was underdressed. I was worried as they're getting situated on the risers, Kenny Loggins remembers Paul Simon, looking up and going, Whoa, if a bomb lands on this place, John Denver's back on top. Which begs the question, Where's John Denver? Yeah.

Kristin Nilsen 29:31

And they said, not being on where the world was one of the greatest heartbreaks of his life. He was not asked to be there. And he had done more for hunger relief than any than all of those people combined in that room, and he was not invited. I was asked to be on it. And they said, No,

Michelle Newman 29:49

let's make sure. Dan Ackroyd there. Oh,

Kristin Nilsen 29:52

God, and then there's Dan accurate. But to your point, Michelle, when he said that I didn't laugh II Oh, no, it's not funny. My husband

Michelle Newman 30:02

and I just looked at each other like, that's No, I don't like you.

Kristin Nilsen 30:05

I suddenly stopped with all Simon.

Michelle Newman 30:08

It was such a dig at John Denver.

Carolyn Cochrane 30:10

Do you? Yeah, I mean here, I guess. You know, here's me glass half full. I like Paul's I know. Um, I think at this point, John Denver, he's had his hits like he's not, he's not. He wasn't probably at the amas I would have to look it up to see if he was they want star power of now. And so if all the Star Power of Now is gone, who was the last big star before we were stars? Well, I guess that would be John Denver. So maybe it was a nice comment, right.

Michelle Newman 30:41

Carol like Diana Ross and stuff who were still big, but they weren't 1985 is not really her payday is it? Well,

Carolyn Cochrane 30:48

I would say she Yeah, that's when I saw her in concert. And I mean, she had a lot of stuff out there.

Kristin Nilsen 30:55

I think most importantly, you combine it with the fact that he had worked so hard for hunger relief, and that he wanted to be on it. And he was told no. And then Paul Simon makes that comment. You combine those two things together, it makes it very unfunny. So he, maybe he didn't know those two things. But either way, he's making a dig at somebody who is no longer getting hits. And you guess you want to do huh? We all recoil though we always mean

Michelle Newman 31:20

Yeah, yeah. Alright, so my first favorite thing I want to talk about is at around 1:30am, after they've had to basically learn the song and get the chorus recorded. And they're all really starting to feel the night and the time. Stevie Wonder decides he needs to be a cook in this kitchen. And so he decides they need to translate part of the song into Swahili

Kristin Nilsen 31:46

and he's faking it. He's got and I don't mean this to insult anybody. I'm doing what Stevie Wonder is doing because he is also being insulting. He's like gobbledygook, gobbledygook, gobbledygook, Goofy. dooby doo. And he thinks he's being

Michelle Newman 32:01

uncool. Yeah, to a lot of confused side eyed looks and exasperation. And I love someone actually yells out they don't even speak Swahili and Ethiopia.

Kristin Nilsen 32:13

It's all insulting Bob Geldof

Michelle Newman 32:15

trying to talk him down because he's insistent he's like, yeah, no, we need to stop we need to translate like four in the morning Geldof reminds him. Okay, listen, Stevie. We're talking to the people who've got the money to give. We're not talking to the famine, like suffering. And Waylon Jennings has had it Waylon Jennings just walks down the risers and right out the door and he says, Good ol boy don't sing Swahili

Kristin Nilsen 32:43

was also insulting. But But you understand the frustration? Yes.

Michelle Newman 32:48

Right. Yes, definitely. And everybody is just like sign like, Are you kidding me? And Huey Lewis says he remembers Ray Charles just saying, ring the bell Quincy. Like time for you to step up and do something so true.

Carolyn Cochrane 33:02

I mean, one of the things that I loved about that scene was, you know, it reminded me of like the student in your class, the professor be getting ready to like, let you out early, and then they be like, one more question. And you're looking at your clock and or your watch, and it's just so annoying. So there was that aspect. And then there was, at least what I picked up was, okay, this is Stevie Wonder talking. So like you said, Michelle, there are these rolling of the eyes, but nobody's really willing to say, I'm not doing that. It's like you needed the gesture to step in. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Rachel was saying, like, people aren't liking this, but they're not about and they're just kind of

Michelle Newman 33:42

everybody was uncomfortable. And Michael Jackson tries to turn it into he tries to save the day. He tries to turn it into a classic Michael Jackson sounding riff. And he tries to start doing like Shazam. And it's Smokey Robinson, who finally takes charge because he starts arguing with Michael and he says, I knew I've known Michael since he was 10. I could do this. I can I can get in his face. And he says, What the fuck does shot? Me? Literally says it. And you guys, there is video footage of this? Yes. To his credit, they all kind of chuckle and whatever. But it isn't about this point in the night. They all kind of lose that star look. Yeah. And to us watching the documentary. They truly start to seem like an unruly and overtired bunch of kindergarteners, some of them are being kind of bratty by now. And some of them are like crossing the arms or they're on

Kristin Nilsen 34:42

the risers just like at school, right? On the rise was like their choir practice. And somebody wants to sing their choir piece in Swahili and they don't know Swahili and they don't know where Swahili is. And

Michelle Newman 34:53

I'm tired. At one point, someone says and it's starting to get real ripe and here Yeah, it was hot.

Kristin Nilsen 34:59

While wearing their outfits from the AMA's still, like Lionel Richie still wearing his gold foil like suit.

Michelle Newman 35:08

And there's big lights anyway. It's pretty funny, but

Carolyn Cochrane 35:11

they were so real. I mean, I just want to say, in general getting to watch this in this documentary, you know, that's kind of the first time we never saw these celebrities, unlike today where you can kind of see somebody at their house. You know, this is what I'm having for breakfast. I'm Kristen Bell, and I'm eating this and you're in their regular clothes. This was one of our first opportunities to see these people unscripted. You know, mingling seeing them starstruck all those things you said earlier, Michelle, and getting autographs getting annoyed being on the risers. I mean, they are they're literally like kids in a quiet, you know, practicing for a choir concert. They're just real people with the same kind of frustrations we all would have. And that was so they stink like, you know, we might have some Bo under the lights. They stink.

Michelle Newman 35:55

It's just so eye opening. I love it. Because you also really get to see their true personalities come out. Yeah, they don't. Yeah, there's cameras around. But you know, they don't know that this is gonna be shown for 39 years. I'm gonna be dead by that. I don't

Kristin Nilsen 36:07

know. This is history. Yeah, I have no idea that this is history. I learned. This was an aha moment for me the Swahili part of it, because I'm a huge Stevie Wonder fan. I love Stevie Wonder. But when I went to the Stevie Wonder concert, I was like, make it and somebody make it and it went on. It was four hours, you guys and it was just him riffing? riffing endlessly. It was like a jam in his basement and like you can't jam for 10,000 people. It was so self indulgent. Can

Michelle Newman 36:39

I just tell you a really funny though, piggybacking on that, we also get to see little scenes of them taking breaks, and I wrote this one down, raised just Ray Charles just just written on the piano, playing songs, and re all of a sudden goes, I've got to go to the bathroom, and see if he goes, I'll show you where it is. And he grabs him by the arm to walk off and says, it's the blind truly leading. And all the stars just crack up. So like I said, you get to see into their personalities, and you get to see them have fun with each other. It was good. Here's a story you guys that made me mad and broke my heart. I know what you're gonna say. So it's well into the night. It's like 4am or something. And she Lee calls prince to get him to come. And Lionel Richie and Kim craigen and they had all wanted prince to be there. He's been invited, he's been invited. And they have actually saved a spot for him a solo spot for him. And he's not there. And Sheila E calls Prince and she tries to get them to come and she says, I think you should come it's pretty cool. Understand to this is current day, Sheila, you telling us this story. So this isn't hearsay or anything? This is coming straight from Sheila is my day today. Yeah. So Lionel gets on the phone with Prince who I love this fact. He's at Carlos and Charlie's. Remember, it's 4am in LA. But Prince and his entourage are at Carlos and Charlie's as you do, I guess, after the Emmys. And Prince says he'll come to play a guitar solo, but in another room by himself. Lionel is like nope, I need you to come and I need you to sing with all of us in one room. Plus Quincies. Like we don't need a guitar on this. We don't this is already been arranged, right music has been arranged. So Sheila E tells us in present day that she was so honored to be asked to be in this group of artists not to mention they asked her to sing a solo. She's a little put out. She said by at this point, she's a little put out that they keep asking her can you get prints here? Can you call him? Can you get prints here? And she says all of a sudden she realizes, hey, I think I'm being used for prints. And she says she starts to feel like the longer they keep me here promising me the solo. Maybe prints will show up. And she knew he wouldn't think they're currently dating at this point, right? And she says she knows she's not going to there's too many people here. So she leaves. And it's heartbreaking because she says she knew then in her heart that they never intended her to sing a solo. It was just for her to get prints there.

Kristin Nilsen 39:08

That was so heartbreaking. Because you can tell even in this in this moment, she wasn't bitter, and she wasn't pointing fingers. She was very disappointed and her feelings were hurt. She's still on the record. She was still in the chorus but she didn't get a solo. And so when she realized I'm not getting this solo, that's when she turned around and she left and she was one of those people that was the most star starstruck, she was the one believe that she wouldn't believe and she asked me for everybody's autograph and she's just nervous, so honored to be there. And then she realized is they're just using me, and I felt so bad.

Michelle Newman 39:45

I did too. And also can we say she looks amazing. She's Buuren de Chile. Holy cow. beautiful, so beautiful. So I was so sad and I was mad that they because that's coming from her. It's not coming from Lionel but at the same time. She kinda has the receipts to back that up doesn't Yeah. And the story and I was like didn't give her a solo. No, they just kept they were dangling in front of her like a carrot. Yep. And everybody else knew it there. So it was

Carolyn Cochrane 40:11

a solo. I mean, they weren't giving solo away. Yeah.

Michelle Newman 40:14

And then you guys have alluded to this a couple of times already, but I know you're going to agree with me because maybe my favorite sneak peek into this whole night is when Diana Ross walks up to Daryl hall with her sheet music in her hands. And she says to Daryl Hall, Diana Ross, Daryl Hall, I'm your biggest fan. Well, you signed my music. And all of a sudden Lionel Richie says, You see Daryl Hall signing Diana Ross's music and everybody's watching this. And then they all are like kids. They're like, great idea. And everybody's autographing each other's and oh my gosh, Cyndi Lauper says she was just like, I couldn't believe these people were wanting me to sign their music, and it's so cute. And it's just, that was a really just a really pure moment. I felt like of this

Kristin Nilsen 41:07

high school moment again, that, you know, they're on the risers, and they have their music, and it's like running around with their yearbooks. Yes,

Michelle Newman 41:13

it was. Yeah. With the risers. Yeah. So great. Okay, so

Kristin Nilsen 41:17

we need to talk about Bob Dylan. Because I know Bob Dylan, and I have feelings about Bob Dylan too, because I know there are a lot of people out there who love Bob Dylan. I'm going to come clean. I don't get it. Okay, I'm, everybody likes something different. I don't get Bob Dylan. So Bob Dylan is not he doesn't get it either.

Michelle Newman 41:40

From 11pm doesn't get it 8am. Bob Dylan doesn't get

Kristin Nilsen 41:45

four. They've given him a solo. And you really actually have compassion from Yoli feel for him? Because he doesn't know how to sing his solo. And he literally does this right away. And

Carolyn Cochrane 41:57

you don't want to laugh, but you can't Sorry. It's true. It's like, oh, you ache but you're like, oh my gosh,

Kristin Nilsen 42:04

but and he's terrified.

Michelle Newman 42:06

But you feel good for him, too,

Carolyn Cochrane 42:08

don't you? Yes, you

Michelle Newman 42:09

do. Because he's not like him. But he's he knows he's out of place.

Kristin Nilsen 42:12

He knows and it's not him trying to foist himself upon others with his musical style. He literally doesn't know what to do and feels that he doesn't have the chops to do what everybody else is doing. That's not what he does. It's got us remembering the random or, and so this is where Stevie comes into play. And Stevie saves the day and he literally coaches Bob Dylan, he teaches Bob Dylan how to sing his part. And he went over to the piano, and he like, composed it. And he's like, okay, like this like this, but I had an ad and I don't know and, and Stevie Wonder is imitating Bob Dylan.

Michelle Newman 42:51

They say it was like Lionel says all of a sudden, it's like he was speaking in tongues. Like he was speaking voices. He was singing everybody's part in their, in their voice. But that was so helpful. Wasn't it was

Kristin Nilsen 43:02

so helpful. And he brought Bob Dylan out. And it's a great moment in the song. Oh, it

Carolyn Cochrane 43:07

it is so great. And it reminds me when talking about my memories of first hearing the song and the video, I remember Bob Dylan, even in the video, just when they're all singing, he just seems so uncomfortable, even like he's barely singing. And I remember back in the 80s watching it and going like, why you see they're like laughing and being what is this? And now understanding the story more and just like you said, having such compassion. I didn't just, oh, it was that second hand embarrassment.

Michelle Newman 43:37

It was well, they do say they cleared the room. They said, Well, we're gonna record this. We've got to clear the room. Quincy Jones knew. And he's and he also was they were kind of coaching him, you can talk it. And I love Quincy, he was going like Bob Dylan would try to do his line. And you see he almost had that look. And this is Bob Dylan. I mean, that look of kind of like, I don't think that's right. And Quincy was so supportive, but no, no, no, that's great. Yes, you can speak it and you guys if there's ever a good testament to what a good music mixer or producer can do. Watch this documentary and watch Bob Dylan sang his part with no you can hear no background vocals, you can hear no background music, and you are kind of like, oh, nails on a chalkboard almost because that's not going with the rest of the song. And then listen to the completed song. And it sounds exactly right. Sounds great. It sounds great.

Carolyn Cochrane 44:26

It's like the podcast. You wouldn't believe what I get my put my magic on it. It was measuring it minute flows together. And I remember who the Huey Lewis today I think it was Huey Lewis saying that Quincy Jones just the role he was playing had to be part psychiatrist or psychologist to like you had to understand what motivated people what scared people and create the climate and atmosphere that they could be their best and that's that's a gift no matter if you're a music producer or a human being thing is just to know how to relate to people

that's to make this Okay, so I want to share a little bit about the scene where they are recording. It's that Willie Nelson Dionne Warwick Alger, row trio. And Dionne Warwick is the first of that trio to kind of sing her solo and she starts to sing. And she's like, what is that? And everyone's like, what is that? And there's like, something in her on her track or whatever, coming in through her headphones. And they play around with stuff and, okay, she tries it again. It's still there. And she says something like, it's, you know, I still hear the voice or something to that effect. And then it just looked Kenny Rogers. He was like, well, could it be one of the mics? Like, he's trying to help save the day? No, the mics are checking out all of that. Finally, she sings it, and it there's nothing there. I mean, it's fine. The track goes. And they Somebody says, Well, it's a mystery. And somebody says, Oh, Ghostbusters, because we got Dan Ackroyd there. So they allude to that or at least we've got our Ghostbusters. And here is my theory that I would like to share with you all and I did some rabbit hole digging and I believe this is going to be true. I believe that the voice that Dionne Warwick heard in headphones was Karen carpenters.

Unknown Speaker 46:25

I know I know. I don't

Michelle Newman 46:27

stop it right now. Stop it right now. We're just we're at

Carolyn Cochrane 46:31

the we are in I am studios, a&m Studios, where we know that that was the studios for the carpenters that they were in Studio A For We Are the World. Studio B is where Karen and Richard did most of their recording.

Kristin Nilsen 46:44

So next door

Michelle Newman 46:46

here on the back of the back my neck and my nostrils is at attention

Carolyn Cochrane 46:50

well and get this Dion and Karen were really good friends. No. Okay. Yes, Dion wrote the foreword to one of the Karen biographies. I found some pictures of her at the funeral of Dionne Warwick at the funeral with Richard. They were very close. Dionne Warwick was the first to kind of record close to you. It never went out to the masses. But you know, the Burt Bacharach connection all of that. I am convinced 100% That one Karen Carpenter would have been in that room had she'd been with us. That that was her. We know they're weak. We have proof in quotation marks that her ghost roams the studios now. Yes. So I am convinced that was the voice. Nobody could explain what she was hearing. And then it was just gone.

Michelle Newman 47:37

I think you're right, too. And

Kristin Nilsen 47:39

crazy. She's like, No, everybody stop. Everybody stop. There's a voice in my headphones. And they're in the they're at the soundboard. And they're checking the mics. They are troubleshooting like crazy. And in the documentary, they never give you an answer. They felt it was important enough to include it in the documentary. But then they just it just disappears. Yeah, the problem. The voice in her headphones just disappears. It just fixes Yeah, it just fixes and nobody else hears that. They're like what are you hearing Dion? She's like it's a voice. Don't you hear it? Like no, we don't hear anything. It Yeah,

Michelle Newman 48:12

I love knowing this. I love knowing and I love knowing that Karen spoke to Dion Yeah,

Carolyn Cochrane 48:18

they were good friends. And that's if she was going to communicate through anyone. I think that really

Michelle Newman 48:24

reach out to Dion and tell her this theory because I bet if she's never thought about that, I bet that would make her feel that she did

Kristin Nilsen 48:32

have like an a 999 line. What did these colors one 900?

Michelle Newman 48:41

She totally did. What 11976197 7pm

At night all the time. Yeah,

Carolyn Cochrane 48:49

that's right. Dionne

Kristin Nilsen 48:51

Warwick psychic line.

Carolyn Cochrane 48:52

Gosh, yeah. So I really truly believe that.

Speaker 1 48:55

He'd smile and keep shouting, though, when you can always count on me.

Carolyn Cochrane 49:07

And the scene and person I want to hold up as I love him more maybe than I even did before this was is Bruce Springsteen. A couple things. First of all, yes, he can't he never you know flies. As you said, the day after a tour ends he's going to do that. They also share in the story that there was a big snowstorm that was potentially going to keep Bruce and Billy Joel from getting to the recording. So that was pins and needles. The universe somehow parted and they both were able to get there in time. So that was amazing. So we know, Bruce Springsteen has been on tour. He's taken this red eye flight gotten to LA in the recording, it's the middle of the night. He's the last person to leave that room and he has the big solo in that they record. Is it the very end of the song

Michelle Newman 49:58

it's the very end of the song I'd suggest the solo then his he's going to do all as little writing.

Carolyn Cochrane 50:05

And he wants to get it right. It's so important to him to get it right at 7:30am. Yes, you know how exhausted he must have been. And luckily, in this documentary, you get to hear present, Bruce Springsteen reflect on this too. And that's so special. So after seeing the effort he put into it, the patience. He had the patience of a saint, because you figure every time we're doing Swahili, or we have to redo El Dorado because I mean, you know, he's thinking, okay, add another 20 minutes on to the end of this. But he did it and he gave it his all and he

Kristin Nilsen 50:44

just is so good natured the whole time he was he was such a cheerleader of other people. He was so generous, and he never, there were a lot of people rolling their eyes that night, for good reason. He was not one of those people. Exactly.

Carolyn Cochrane 50:56

And if anybody maybe had a good reason roll their eyes, it could have been him thinking, you know, I'm the last one out of here. So the longer this takes, the longer I'm here, but I never felt that either. And, and again, wanting to give 110% for that, for his solos and all of his raspy voice stuff. So

Michelle Newman 51:15

when they say he says something like that, like by the end, he normally has a raspy voice. Right, right. But by the end of a tour, and by the end of this long night, it's so bad. And he says, but he just gave it his all and he's even like, and it sounded okay. And it sounded so good.

Carolyn Cochrane 51:31

iconic part of that song. I mean, I think if you tell people we are the world. You know, remember it from the 80s you can hear that gravelly Bruce Springsteen, part of it as one of the first things that at least for me, that comes to mind. I love you, Bruce. You're welcome on podcast anytime, for sure.

Michelle Newman 52:00

It's a wrap. They know they have it. And you guys Diana Ross is crying. She says I don't want this to be over. It's like you said it's like it's like high school. It's like senior year, right? Those last few weeks are treacherous. They're torture. All you want to do is go home. You want it to be over. And then when it is you don't want it to be over and they all leave. Lionel Richie gets home. And his family is congratulating him for his great job hosting the AMA's the night before you guys he won six awards. That night was

Kristin Nilsen 52:36

hosting it and winning it and singing and singing. And every time they say backstage,

Michelle Newman 52:40

when they say backstage, people would come up to him. Oh, congratulations on that, you know, third award, you're just one and they said he was laser focused backstage on notes and getting prepared for this night ahead of him. And one thing we didn't really say is, you know, we talked a little bit about Quincy Jones. But you know, Lionel Richie, there's many parts in this documentary that it's very evident. He has to be that kindergarten teacher. And he's so kind and so patient with everybody and calming everybody down. And you know, all the different egos that are in that room? Yeah. Did we mention the sign that Quincy Jones hastily wrote and taped to the door? Leave your egos at the door. And at one point, Lionel says they didn't. But anyway, he gets home and his family is congratulating him. Oh, great job with the AMA's and all your words, and he says he was like what? Yeah, but what are you talking about? Because all he could talk about and think about was we are the world he says that overshadowed everything. And Huey Lewis. I love what he says at the end. And I think this is a great way to wrap it up. He says we were exhausted. But we knew we'd done something that would live forever.

Carolyn Cochrane 53:45

Well, it didn't just end after the recording ended. Okay, we're putting this together, we are going to make a single of this, that is going to raise money for hunger relief in Africa. So it is decided that the single will be released on March 7 1985 at the exact same time, all around the world. You guys as a family, let's just take a moment to think about that logistics all around the world. Yeah, exactly. The coordination. Again, the universe at work here. Like we have this moment that we can unify the whole world and we're going to play it out like this. So we have this moment where everyone around the world is hearing it at the same time. It becomes the fastest selling single in US history. We all go out and buy the single like immediately and you start seeing all these images on the news and you know MTV and everything of people all around the world singing it you know ARM and ARM swaying on steps of churches in you know, Main Street America. It's just again, it's kind of nipple lightning. Upon nipple lightening, like you said earlier, Michelle, because you see all of these people together. And I miss moments like this, you guys, the unity that this song brought to the world. I'm not sure that anything like that can ever, ever happen again. Okay, with all of the divisiveness we are living with today. I mean, logistically, it's probably the easiest has ever been technologically and all of that, technically, to get something like this to happen with all of the abilities we have to communicate. And yet I think it's the, it will never ever happen again. Those moments of people singing together, like I said, ARM and ARM swaying and smiling. It was so moving, and yet so bittersweet to me at the same time, because I thought, we're not going to have that again. You know, I felt like we still must have to during the Olympics and stuff that was unifying moments. You know, I pray that it happens again, for my grandkids and for myself, but, you know, I don't I don't know that it ever will. So that I think is what makes this documentary coming out at this moment in time. All the more important, like, you know, the 80s had its issues. Yeah, we're we're putting to point those out. But yet at the same time, there were some really special moments. And I think this was one of them. Like we were able to leave all that differences aside and come together as a world. But and

Kristin Nilsen 56:18

part of that is because those were 45 people who were known to all the people. I'm not sure you could gather 45, for sure, today that are known to

Carolyn Cochrane 56:27

Well, yeah, there's tote, there's, there's that element to it. And culture doesn't

Kristin Nilsen 56:31

operate that way anymore. We don't listen to the radio like that anymore.

Michelle Newman 56:35

It's just like TV shows we talk. We've talked about that with award shows, you know, there's a reason the AMA's were more popular in 1985. Because you knew, and more than one generation knew who all these people are, right? They were people that we loved, because we grew up listening to our moms and dads play their records. And they were still making stuff. And now, I don't even know if I would say my daughter's in their 20s. If they watched the Grammys, if they would know who every single person was the way we knew who every single person was,

Kristin Nilsen 57:01

they would not. We would not Yeah, because they exist in in not a public space. Right. They existence radio is public. Streaming is private. Yes, right.

Michelle Newman 57:14

That's a good point,

Carolyn Cochrane 57:14

actually. Right. Well, so much good came out of We are the world since its release, we are the world has raised over $80 million, which is equivalent to approximately $160 million in 2024. They've raised that money for humanitarian causes in Africa, and they continue to raise money to this day.

Kristin Nilsen 57:49

So we all knew that we or the world was a big deal. We all knew it made a lot of money. We may or may not have bought the single but what we didn't know was what it took to get that son made. It never even occurred to me that that might be a story in and of itself. This is a song I had fairly neutral feelings about, but I never will again. Yeah. Now I hear every one of those voices and I know what it took to get that person in that place to sing that line in that way. And I'll never not hear it again. Thanks so much for listening today, and we'll see you next time.

Michelle Newman 58:30

Today's episode was brought to you by Lionel Stevie Quincy, Bruce, Sandy. Diana. You guys love it when I do that? No, it was brought to you by some of our wonderful patreon supporters and one time donors like our newest patrons, Rochelle, Mindy, Barbara Scylla. And Tara, as well as Jill, Cheryl, Allison and Cynthia. In

Kristin Nilsen 58:53

the meantime, let's raise our glasses for a toast courtesy of the cast of Three's Company to good times to Happy

Carolyn Cochrane 59:00

Days to Little House on the Prairie cheer shares. We

Unknown Speaker 59:06

we have children

Kristin Nilsen 59:15

the information opinions and comments expressed on the pop culture Preservation Society podcast belongs solely to Carolyn the crush ecologist and hello Newman, and are in no way representative of our employers or affiliates. And though we truly believe we are always right, there's always a first time the PCPs is written produced and recorded in Minneapolis, Minnesota Home of the fictional w j m studios and our beloved Mary Richards Nananana. Keep on truckin and may the Force be with you