The Gen X Middle School Dance: Therapy Not Included
Kristin Nilsen 0:00
Did you know that the pop culture Preservation Society depends on support from listeners like you to keep our podcast up and running. We are an independent operation creating, producing, distributing and promoting the podcast by ourselves and paying for it out of our own pockets, because we love it and we think it's worth it to preserve the well loved cultural nuggets from our Gen X youth. If you'd like to become a supporter of the PCPs go to patreon.com pa t ar e o n, and search for pop culture Preservation Society. Our Patreon supporters are like our pit crew giving us the fuel we need to keep on truckin. And as a Patreon supporter, you will also get special thank you gifts, like video recordings of our episodes after the episode discussions, invitations to live events over zoom and the occasional blooper delivered straight to your inbox. Thank you so much for listening and for being a part of our society. I do remember that. It's almost like sounds weird to say the birth canal. But it's like the hallway is all lit up and bright. And there's this threshold that you have to cross over where you go into the dark womb, dance. And it's like instantaneous and I remember sort of clinging to my people like you have to go in as a group. And no, sound like we're saying come on get louder this will make you
Michelle Newman 1:32
welcome to the pop culture Preservation Society, the podcast for people born in the big wheel generation who could tell what kind of mood they were in by looking at their
Kristin Nilsen 1:40
race. We believe our genetics childhoods gave us unforgettable songs, stories, characters and images. And if we don't talk about them, they'll disappear like Marshall will and Holly on a routine expedition.
Carolyn Cochrane 1:52
And today, we'll be saving that ultimate preteen rite of passage, the middle school dance. I'm Carolyn.
Kristin Nilsen 2:00
I'm Kristen,
Michelle Newman 2:01
and I'm Michelle and we are your pop culture preservationist.
Carolyn Cochrane 2:13
At no time were our full range of adolescent emotions more keenly felt than the night of the middle school dance. That emotional roller coaster we boarded on those evenings gave us all the feels from the giddy anticipation of getting ready to the nervous energy of walking into the dance, to elation and heartbreak and everything in between. The middle school dance contains all the ingredients for the perfect tween emotional cocktail.
Kristin Nilsen 2:38
That's not that the tween emotional cocktail. That is so true.
Carolyn Cochrane 2:41
Yes. Right. I mean, just like all the emotions,
Michelle Newman 2:45
I was there for all of it, though. Like, that was my jam. Like, a lot of people are like, ah, yikes, the middle school dance and in my memory. I loved going to the dances. I mean, the pageantry of it right, like sure, the getting ready, the friends, the music, that it might have changed once I walked through those gym doors, but Well,
Carolyn Cochrane 3:05
that's why it was all the things you were gonna deal with. Right?
Kristin Nilsen 3:08
Yeah, we're gonna don't forget the people who didn't go, because and we'll talk error. Yes, right, exactly. And I think that I only went to one, because I think I was too scared to go to the rest for a variety of reasons. And also, we've talked about this before to where some of us went to middle school, and some of us went to junior high, right. And there, it doesn't seem like there's a big difference. But when you're in junior high, you also have ninth grade. So you're actually a little bit older. And I don't think it's a coincidence that I didn't go to a junior high dance until I was in ninth grade.
Carolyn Cochrane 3:38
Oh, for sure. So was it 789 for you at night? Okay. Okay. There's a big difference between seventh graders and ninth graders. Oh, my God. Yeah, sure.
Kristin Nilsen 3:48
It's basically elementary school kids versus high school kids. Yeah.
Michelle Newman 3:52
And also, let's not forget, there's a lot of other factors that are involved here. I mean, I had just seventh in eighth grade, I just had Middle School. But it was very small, like very small, like the there was not even going to be 100 people at my seventh grade dance. And I think we had a seventh grade dance and an eighth grade dance and my memory they separated them. So because I know that that makes it I have no idea. This is just in my memory. It was the seventh grade dance. It probably was eighth grade, too. But so let's say at maximum, there was 101 Because a lot of people don't go so say there was 150 people there max. So if you went to a really big junior high or middle school, or if you're incorporating for grades, that's way more intimidating. Oh, it's
Kristin Nilsen 4:32
it's so interesting. I didn't think about that at all. But you're right. I went to a ginormous junior high it was bigger than most people's high schools. It was I think 1500 to 2000 kids or something like that. Yeah. And so as a seventh grader walking into a dance where there would be to your point people with body hair Yeah. And like mustaches but and there was people be Yeah, boobs and like people making out in in earnest. Oh, No, I could and I would have been terrified. And also do I even have anyone to go with because the having a game was pivotal to walk into that scenario alone? I'm not sure that's survivable that might kill you. It might Yeah,
Carolyn Cochrane 5:17
I don't think that's a no brainer. You just go. Well, we were inspired to do this episode after reading an NPR article by pop culture, Happy Hour host Linda Holmes, and the article was titled 1980s Middle School slow dance songs was the playlist I didn't know I need it. And she went on to describe how she had come across on her satellite radio, an ad station called chill pill. And after listening to some of those songs, she was kind of immediately transported back to her middle school dance days. And immediately after reading the piece, I was like texting Kristen, and Michelle. And then one of you guys said we need to do an episode on middle school dances. And so here we are kind of honoring this universal experience. And to your points about, you know, the sizes of the schools and kind of how we maybe how it was junior high or middle school or whatever. I do think that there are some universal emotions, no matter you know, oh, abs if you went if you didn't, who you went with whatever, that we all experienced during this this evening of, you know, getting ready for this middle school dance. I'd like to tell you guys that the middle school dance is the setting for one of the top most memorable moments of maybe my entire life, but I'll go ahead and say my younger days. Okay, So picture this. I'm an eighth grade, and it's the Christmas dance. So we had one a month and middle school dances on a Friday night. Yeah. Yeah, so. So you didn't obviously go to all of them. I was only at our middle school for one year, my sister was at the same one for three years shout out Mount Laurel Middle School in Mount Laurel, New Jersey. So yeah, so I'm not sure how many I went to probably, let's say six or seven, and in my eighth grade, and I think the student council put it on and they sold the concession. So it was kind of like a fundraiser moneymaker kind of thing for them. So this particular middle school dance was the Christmas dance. So it's our December dance. It's nearing the end of the evening, and you know, not much longer before the lights are going to be turned on. And somehow my friends convinced my crush. Oh my gosh, to ask me to dance. And so he comes over to ask me. And it's Christmas dance. And my friends hold mistletoe
Michelle Newman 7:30
overhead. Oh, my God, that's cruel. Oh, my God, maybe?
Carolyn Cochrane 7:34
But not for me. Oh, yes. He leans in and gives me probably the second Best Kiss of my life. Of course, I would say the best ones come from Andy. But until I met Andy, it was the single best kiss I had ever experienced. We are talking Bobby Brady, Millicent kiss, complete with the fireworks. weak knees. I mean, this moment would be the standard bearer for every kiss to come after the rest of my life until I met end. And after we kissed then we began slow dancing because Donna Summers last dance song had come on. It was gonna be the end of the evening coming soon. And we know that that starts out slowly and then it kind of Jazz's up, and that's kind of when the lights would flick on. And then it was kind of it was over. But you guys,
Michelle Newman 8:21
well, if so what? Wait, just the kiss and then. Date. No, no,
Carolyn Cochrane 8:26
no, it was just that was it? It was.
Kristin Nilsen 8:29
That's the middle school experience in a nutshell. Right there.
Carolyn Cochrane 8:33
It's over. Yes, it was. Oh, you know those lights? Come on.
Michelle Newman 8:36
Do we think after though like I bet we're dating now.
Carolyn Cochrane 8:43
I think like what's going to happen next? I don't remember all of that. I do remember though that there were moments come that spring. Oh, man one you guys this might be the most heartbreaking moment. We were in line to go see something in the cafeteria or the auditorium or something from our English class. He was in my English class. And he came up like, basically to stand next to me in the line or I'm like, Oh, my gosh, we're gonna sit next to each other and he purposely came up here. So excited. We go in. I'm the last one of the one row He's the first person to know
I know it I just Oh my heart. Anyway, at another moment. I'll never forget my middle school days. I think the relationship it just it didn't exist because of that row separation. Oh, God, I know. So anyway, that was my to ed ed moments.
Kristin Nilsen 9:38
I think that what you just described is the essence of the middle school dance is elusiveness elusive. Everyone is so elusive, and you might get a little taste and that's fine. Yes, exactly. You're that person. Yes. And you see the theme over we're going to talk about it more later to use it over and over and over. Again, it's nothing permanent comes from the school.
Michelle Newman 10:04
It's like we don't talk about the things that happen when the lights are off. And the lights come on. It's over
Carolyn Cochrane 10:09
to reality. Yeah, exactly. Well, again, we talked about this being a universal experience, so much so that it has woven itself into our pop culture. I mean, it's been, you know, played out in movies and books, it's very
Kristin Nilsen 10:22
interesting. I think the middle school dance or the or the first dance is recognized by the entertainment industry as being an important moment in a person's life, a moment that could be either a dream come true or fraught with insecurity. Both of those things are true. And it actually even is true if you didn't go because even if you didn't go, it was still a big event, right? I'm not going should I go, my mom wants me to go, I don't want to go. I'm scared to go. Should I go? All of that if
Michelle Newman 10:51
you choose not to, or for whatever reason, you don't go? That's still
Carolyn Cochrane 10:57
part of that experience. Yeah, that's right. And there are two places
Kristin Nilsen 10:59
in pop culture that portrayed it so lovingly, and yet so accurately, that it's both heartwarming and painful to watch, but you smile because you recognize it. The first is in the pilot episode of the shortlist, but iconic Gen X era series Freaks and Geeks, which follows a bunch of high schoolers around in 1980 supposed to be the year 1980 and has an all star cast of people before they were stars. Seth Rogen, busy Phillips James Franco Linda Cardellini Jason Segel, it's full chock full of stars. And among the characters is a group of boys straight from junior high who have not yet hit their growth spurt. You know what I'm talking about those tiny boys? Right? Yes, they just haven't. They're out there yet. They're just not there. I once taught one of those little kids how to kiss in the name of my church after choir practice. He was like a little buddy of mine. Anyway. I mean, he's, he was a teenager who's my age? Okay. Yeah.
Carolyn Cochrane 11:56
Sorry. Yeah, that sounds like you were a teacher. And
Kristin Nilsen 11:59
he was my age. Okay. But a tiny boy. And I taught him to kiss in the name of our church distinct. Yes. So in this first episode of Freaks and Geeks is a scene that has gone down in history for one moment that takes place at a school dance. One of these little boys wants to ask a popular cheerleader to what would be his first dance. And his friends are like, are you crazy? She's a cheerleader. And you've seen Star Wars 27 times. Like the best mine. It just sums up exactly who we were in 1980. Yeah, a cheerleader has been some Yeah. Brian. Brian. Yeah. The cheerleader. She says no, of course, she doesn't choose to yes. But she does throw him a bone. And she says, I'll save a dance for you, which is all that little kid needs to show up. He's gonna put on his suit, and he's gonna show up to the dance. And when he walks into the gym, he sees her in her pretty dress, talking with her friends, and the song, Come sail away by sticks comes on.
And he walks in slow motion over to the cheerleader, step by scary step. And she dramatically holds her hand out to him. And he takes her hand in his and this tiny boy slowly walks out onto the dance floor, you know, that walk, right? Your walk, you're, and you can't believe it, you're holding that person's hand and you're walking slowly to the slow song out to the dance where you're like, Is this my life? Is this happening to me? And just when they find their place, they turn to face each other end because we all know this song. We know what happens in the middle of the song, the music changes. And your end, the music speeds up.
And you're like this little boy's dreams are dashed and ever. And she starts like dancing like, you know, it's a fast song. He did not intend for this to be a fast song. And it also brings up a very important part of the middle school dance. What do we do with our bodies? Like he was prepared to go out there and do the you know, hands on the shoulders, hands on waist, rock back and forth. He was not prepared to wiggle. No. And you just feel for him in that moment. Like, ah, it was like it's one of the best things in film. Okay, there's one other place in popular popular culture that also punched me in the gut in this same exact way for the same exact reason. There's a great episode of The Goldbergs that has a very emotional first dance moment that so it made me cry for a variety of reasons. It wasn't just one thing. And I think that's because I was crying for both of myself. In that moment. I was crying for my seventh grade self and I was also crying for my mom's myself in this scene, plus I have a very special connection to the episode, which I will tell you about later, which made me identify with the seventh grader really hard. It's season one, episode 14, it's Adams first dance, and he's experiencing the elephant in the room. Again, what do I do with my body? Terror? How do I move it in a way that won't embarrass me and humiliate me, I don't know how to do this thing. And that is what's something that will keep people from going to the dance, because I don't know what to do with my body, right. And in a rare moment of detente, Adam allows his mom Bevy to show him some moves. She even teaches him how to slow dance. But then tragedy strikes when Adam learns that his mom is going to chaperone the dance. And again, you're like, Oh, and this is where Adam and I are soldier soldiers on the battlefield together, because this exact same thing happened to me. And I can't believe that I'm still alive today. It almost ruined our family. I, I lashed out at my parents in such a toddler fashion. And I had to strike a deal with my parents, that when they saw me, they had to promise to cross the gym, to the other side of the gym, wherever I was, I made them criss cross the gym all night long if they happen to see me, which also makes me identify even more with the scene because this is what comes next. Because when Bevy, gets to the dance, and she sees Adam holding onto a girl's hand, and the song The search is over by survivor, comes on, Bevy, knows what's coming. And he's walking his little girlfriend out to the middle of the dance floor, and Adam sees his mom run away and leave the dance floor. He sees her doing it, and he's like, Thanks, mom, for not horning in on this uncharacteristic of them, right? uncharacteristic, right. But then, so she leaves the gym, but then you see her face peering through the window. And suddenly it's me watching Liam and his first dance and your heart just breaks into because let's all admit it. If you had the opportunity to witness that important first in your child's life, wouldn't you do anything? Just be a fly on the wall or see it? The search is over.
Unknown Speaker 17:45
See?
Carolyn Cochrane 17:52
Me All right. Well, you guys, let us buckle up and hop into our DeLorean and travel back in time to revisit this iconic Gen X experience the middle school dance. Well, I'd
Michelle Newman 18:07
argue that for many of us guys and girls, the planning what you'll wear eclipsed the actual dance. This was the topic of very serious note passing and lunchtime huddles and emergency phone calls in the weeks leading up to the dance. Maybe you got to go to the mall and hit up the fashion bug or chest King Shane, or limited Casual Corner or maybe like me, you went with your mom to Hancock fabrics and sat on a high wooden stool and flipped through the pattern books to pick out the perfect Butterick or McCall's or simplicity dress pattern. And then it was the pressure of actually getting ready. The laborious curling of the hair anxiousness of perfecting your feathers on the side and your bangs getting them just fluffed. You know, just right. And then the decisions is you are the gold stretchy belt and a small ribbon choker is that too much too you know, I want to share with you my most memorable middle school dance the seventh grade Valentine dance and apologies to those of you who've heard the description of my ensemble before but not really because it is pure 1982 fabulousness and I think this week and our Weekly Reader we're all going to post a picture if we have one and can find one of each of us at a middle school dance. My mom made the dress it's white little tiny red dots it's kind like that like you know they're kind of raised
Carolyn Cochrane 19:33
yeah
Michelle Newman 19:34
it's not a twist yes puffy sleeves but then I dropped waist but three tear ruffle that ends right attorneys again 19 Eight that
Kristin Nilsen 19:41
was a thing. Yeah, that
Michelle Newman 19:42
was a thing that dropped ways Yeah, drop weighs three tear ruffle and then it had like a little red ribbon at the SEMA the dropped waist but then I had a tiny red ribbon choker and she made a little red ribbon rose for the choker. I wear these long. Like they almost look like icicles like when White long earrings, if you can imagine. And I didn't really wear makeup, you know, I was only in seventh grade, but I had big ol mouthful of braces. And also, this was the time when I would curl my hair back. But in the middle of my bangs that one would go under, oh, would curl that one under. And I think I wear white tights and just little flats with it. It was it was absolutely beautiful. Do you guys have memorable outfits that you wear to dances? Well,
Carolyn Cochrane 20:27
I, again, because I didn't have them as the Special Event kind of dances like you had that were kind of themed. Ours were always kind of getting ready over at a friend's house before because one of the parents was going to drive that leg of the carpool. And so I remember getting ready at my friend Debbie's house. And this is was so fun because this is when you borrow clothes. I mean, remember when you borrow things, that was so fun. And so I remember borrowing her carpenters pants, that's what we call, we call them painters. A lot of people call them carpenters.
Michelle Newman 20:57
That's where your comb goes. Yeah.
Carolyn Cochrane 21:01
Exactly. And so I was borrowing that maybe a shirt of hers, but I distinctly remember my kind of crocheted disco scarf thing that was if you remember like that knotted balls on the end, so it wasn't meant to keep you warm or anything it was gonna go
Kristin Nilsen 21:16
around the front. Right and Jack
Michelle Newman 21:20
teleserye red and yeah, it
Carolyn Cochrane 21:21
was often that metallic thread in our woven through. I remember for this particular getting ready at her house. I was wearing that and I guess maybe for disco moves, it was kind of a thing because you could maybe grab it as the partner. I don't know why it was a disco like and like, use it as part of the you know, the dance. And I also remember you just talked about makeup Michelle, and it reminded me my friend Debbie's dad sold chemical he was like a chemical salesperson or is he just going oh, no, he saw so Cover Girl was one of his clients. And so he she would always get makeup from cover girl like, you know, kind of free blasters and stuff. Yeah, and so there was like a whole line of kind of, not over the top makeup kind of thing like we could put powder on are the lightest pink lipstick. So it was it was makeup. We were still using it. But it was kind of you know, under the radar kind of makeup. And so I remember it was like this. I don't know shopping spree of all of this Covergirl makeup that we would get to pick and put on picture
Michelle Newman 22:19
like the Cover Girl, the four color eyeshadow and there was a glittery. If I was wearing any makeup at my seventh grade dance, dance, it would have been wet and wild. And I believe the shade of lipstick we all were obsessed with was like 568 or something like that. But we could go and buy because it was so cheap. Remember how cheap they still sell it? I think well, it is cheap. But yeah, and if I had anything on it would have been like a little blush. I so many freckles, you guys I was like pale faced with just a ton of freckles. And in those braces. It's it's it's not an attractive look. But I love the pictures. And actually, I think the only picture I have of me in that dress was that I worked for Easter. And I decided to pair it with a jaunty little white straw hat and white gloves. So I'm pretty sure the only picture I'm having me on that dress is from Easter. So if I post it out wear
Carolyn Cochrane 23:09
the hat and
Kristin Nilsen 23:11
the gloves. No, no, I think I think the fact that you had them so frequently Carolyn is is that's a game changer. Because what it means is that you have so many opportunities to practice and practice and practice and practice. And you it wasn't such a scary thing. We had just one a year that I can remember. Which made it like the prom every single one was such a big deal and you only have three tries to get it right. And so I finally got it right in in ninth grade. For makeup. I really only wore makeup at the Stein girls house because they could do makeup and so then they would do my makeup for me. And then when I did get to the point where I could where I was going to do my own makeup. It seemed like everything was on the sly. You you'd get even from the colors like it's just barely pink, right? It's not a color. And then I would I remember I would take it out like quietly and then I would quietly open like Don't click it shut. I don't know if I thought I was gonna get in trouble. Nobody told me I couldn't wear makeup but if my scalp and is quiet, so nobody knows. And what I wore to this one dance is very memorable. Because I think this also says a lot about fear are the last dance was a 50s dance. It was a themed dance, which meant that it kind of stripped away the drama about what I should be wearing. And the consternation and the fear about picking out my outfit or what I should be wearing because we had to wear 50 stuff. And so I wore a pair of jeans. I rolled them up. I were bobby socks and little white kids and a one of my dad's big oversized white shirts. And then I wear a high ponytail which was not something you did in the 80s ponytail wasn't a thing.
Carolyn Cochrane 24:57
No side ponytail was a side of me He was a thing Yeah, right. Loved this
Kristin Nilsen 25:02
iPhone and then my dream bangs were like the big curtain of beings that was curled over a big barrel curling iron that would just end at let kind of like maybe it would it be Phoebe Cates? Would she have those bangs that were like, just a curtain, the curtain and curled under? Oh, when I think I had. Did I have a bandana around my neck?
Carolyn Cochrane 25:26
Like a scarf? Kind of? Yeah, it would do to the side. Yes.
Kristin Nilsen 25:28
And so I think what that allowed me to do was hide behind a costume. And it removed one of the barriers to entry. Don't look at me. I'm a 50s girl. Oh, yeah.
Michelle Newman 25:38
I was in dance. Yeah, I
Carolyn Cochrane 25:42
was. Speaking of theme dances when I was doing some research for this and I would put in like 80s middle school dance. Often what would come up would be current middle school dances with the theme of 80s 80s 50s
Michelle Newman 25:55
day. Yeah, my
Kristin Nilsen 26:00
50s Day was there
Carolyn Cochrane 26:01
a nice day, or vice versa? Middle school dance name these days?
Michelle Newman 26:05
Can you believe it? Well, we crowdsource our social media followers to ask them you know, to share their own memories, their stories of middle school dances, the songs they listened to if they could remember what they wore. And oh man, you guys have whole feelings and to say about middle school. So since we're talking right now about what we wore and getting ready I just want to share some of our our listeners and our social media followers. Our friend Jen remembers wearing black and white polka dotted short hauls. Shorts and overalls short you don't have to choose their
Carolyn Cochrane 26:46
Oh I love it he
Michelle Newman 26:47
is for paper says My mom made me an adorable white frilly dress with dark pink ribbon trim on I feel up. Becca says she remembers at the dance they would take off their Cherokee sandals and put on their pom pom socks. Oh
Kristin Nilsen 27:03
that and think about it. We need that now because the pom pom was what kept your sock from going in to Yes, I'm
Michelle Newman 27:09
gonna bring back the pom poms I can when I'm out walking I just dare anybody to socks. Ginger mentions that her dance was held over Christmas break so of course she had new lip gloss and new sweet honesty per few nice. Kansas Virginia is bringing some young Gen X and 90s into our Convo she says all the girls were short dresses from Deb.
Kristin Nilsen 27:34
Oh yeah, remember
Michelle Newman 27:36
that all store demo days? Yeah, but later yeah, Gail shared this memory. Tom McCann woody platform shoes or Earth shoes 1977 And session to the bathroom with an oversized comb and our back pockets to re feather our hair and apply overzealous amounts of kissing sticks or bonnievale Lip smackers that hung from cords around our necks.
Kristin Nilsen 27:57
Oh he just got all of it. She just ticked all the box. Love it
Michelle Newman 28:00
right. Karen remembers wearing tan corduroy pants and a white button up blouse. I love that blouse with thin silver and lavender stripes and a ruffled collar I can picture details of this Karen have this memory are impressive. there and she says there might have been ribbon covered Brett's 202 which I say oh Karen, there's no might about definitely ribbon cutting for reds. And
Kristin Nilsen 28:27
they're dangling down in my long hair behind my curtain of beings.
Michelle Newman 28:31
Yes. Okay, just monster bought her maroon corduroys and cardigan at hurrah, an irregular clothing store. anyone remembers it?
Kristin Nilsen 28:42
I remember Hurrah. I didn't know it was a regular
Michelle Newman 28:47
your mom was like this is the hottest shit
Kristin Nilsen 28:50
probably did. I have not thought of Herat in 45 years Wow.
Carolyn Cochrane 28:55
I just had this vision where you said I didn't know it wasn't a regular store and I thought you know there's Linda taking it like we're gonna go shopping it hurrah yeah, by the way, you know Buffy died she
Kristin Nilsen 29:09
already garland
Carolyn Cochrane 29:13
find your way to great hip
Kristin Nilsen 29:16
Hurrah and liver is steak. Oh by the way we're having
Michelle Newman 29:22
LINDA Oh my god no kidding because
Carolyn Cochrane 29:24
she might have like really affected your take on steaks for the rest like I like
Kristin Nilsen 29:29
steak. People like that. Liver.
Michelle Newman 29:33
Liver and onions. My parents didn't expect us to eat it but the smell I think it's still in my hair. Okay, and we're going to end this section with this mic drop memory from keepsake lake. It was seventh grade. And the mood setting black light in the gym made my white training bra glow purple through my shirt. Oh my god,
Kristin Nilsen 29:57
I'd have to go home. I just I'm calling You're
Carolyn Cochrane 30:00
running to the bathroom with Oh my gosh. And she lived to tell the tale. She did
Michelle Newman 30:06
detail the town. She probably just came out of the house last year.
Kristin Nilsen 30:13
I've been doing some work with my therapist. I can't do it.
Carolyn Cochrane 30:16
I've let it go. Oh, gosh. Okay, so now that we've put on those painters pants, hung that crocheted disco scarf around our neck, squirted our sweet honesty put on our Tom McCann, wooden shoes, we're ready to hop into the car of whoever's parent is driving this leg of the carpool. And we're heading to school. So my sister and I were actually reminiscing a bit about the whole middle school dance thing. And she, one of her memories is even before the dance happens that she has. So specifically in her mind, she says, her stomach, she can still recreate that feeling like the butterflies. Yeah, she remembers how kind my mom was because she didn't want to eat dinner. Like my mom would try to prep, like, you know, early dinner for her. And she would always say, Mom, I'm not hungry. And my mom didn't make her eat it. She was like, super empathetic and was like, Oh, I get it. And that's a distinct memory for Ronnie. And so she remembers that excitement but also this real, you know, truly the butterfly feeling. Yeah, sure. We all can relate to that kind of feeling.
Kristin Nilsen 31:22
It was terror. It was and you wanted it. Bad. Right? Exactly. Yeah.
Michelle Newman 31:27
I have memories of walking again. I I'm centering most of this are on my seventh grade Valentine dance. And I prop there were probably more but this one for some reason. stuck with me probably because as you guys know, and longtime listeners know, I danced with Rick Brannon for 87 minutes to California. But walking into the gym that was suddenly dark. Yeah, it had this air of mystique like you almost didn't notice the air of seventh grade body odor lingering from the game of dodgeball like from earlier in the day. And at this dance, we had a band. And in my
Carolyn Cochrane 32:01
I know, bands in my memory.
Michelle Newman 32:05
It was a band of like 10 people. They were completely spotlit like a concert. In reality, it was probably three high school kids, the middle school paid and Burgerville certificates because it was just like what like impressive. And I also have a distinct memory of the gym floor. You know, we didn't have like a certain dance floor. It was like this is the area. But I can still see like where the band was to my right. And then I can see all the huddles, of groups of friends of kids. Now I thankfully was going I'm sure I went with my friend Kristen and a couple other people. But I can picture it as like groups of people around us empty square. Yeah, like you're supposed to. Well,
Kristin Nilsen 32:47
and that's very, that is one of the things that I think kept me from going to those first dances because in the one that I went to, I do remember that it's almost like, sounds weird to say the birth canal. But it's like the hallway is all lit up and bright. And there's this threshold that you have to cross over, where you go into the dark womb of the dance. And it's like instantaneous, and I remember sort of clinging to my people, like you have to go in as a group. You can't walk in individually. You can't do this casually. You can't be like, Okay, I'll see you inside. No, no, no, we're please, please hold me up. Everybody come with me as threshold, right? You needed to have your people for sure.
Carolyn Cochrane 33:30
And I'm just now getting this memory of, I'm sure because my mom and my friend's moms were all just like the dance starts at seven. You're getting there at seven. Like that's when it starts. So you know, you're sometimes some of the earliest people and in our case, it was the cafeteria. So we've got like, I was just eating pizza here before but you've got the tempo. Yeah, you got those folded up tables against the wall. But you would stare at that threshold because you'd want to see who was coming in at least in my case, because I was so early. Yeah. Was he coming? Is he gonna be here or whatever? And yeah, so
Kristin Nilsen 34:04
you wouldn't go in right away. You're gonna hang out in the light in the bright? Well, I actually would
Carolyn Cochrane 34:08
be hanging in probably because my mom probably said go in. Oh my gosh, I just remember staring at that threshold basically that people were crossing over and that feeling that you talked about Michelle of you know, for me just being in my school after hours there was just something so like, magical and mysterious like these hallways that two hours ago I was you know, walking around opening my locker but there's like this big metal gate across some of them and they're dark. Back there.
Michelle Newman 34:37
It's like seeing a teacher outside of school. Like when you see your school outside of school hours. I think in my mind, you always just feel like your school like disappears, we just Yeah, and it's only your school is only there when you're there. And when you go and especially when the gym is dark. Yes. I don't know, especially when you're like, you know, by the time you get to high school dances, you've done it but these first dance Since these first times, it
Kristin Nilsen 35:02
felt so I mean, it seems strange to associate that with feeling a kind of maturity. But I did when you see the gate and you see the lockers that are not used, and you're not allowed back there, it felt like I was transcending my own school. Yeah, that feeling
Carolyn Cochrane 35:17
coupled with again, then it's dark in this room that or space that for me still has these lingering smells of, you know, in the case of Yeah, pizza or fish, because it's Friday and the Catholics and we've got fish sticks from earlier in the day or tuna casserole. So, so yeah, so that that was just amazing. And then all of a sudden, we're in this space. And that's where some stuff happens.
Michelle Newman 35:41
Well, I think what's kind of interesting about a middle school dance, as opposed to maybe a high school dance, although certainly high school dances, this can, this can be true as well. But like, all of a sudden, someone tells you, this is now how you're supposed to act with boys or with girls. And so you've got girls and boys who maybe, and I'm raising my hand here aren't quite ready to be put into that situation. Yeah. And you might also have girls who are looking at the girls instead of the boys and feeling uncomfortable with the boys looking at the boys in not feeling comfortable. In some boys, like I said earlier, my husband and probably seventh in eighth grade, who was scared to look at the girls, but people are putting you in this situation to be at your house, or your gym. And they're telling you now is the time now is the year that meetings. Yes, exactly. This yet last year wasn't right. And right. In reality, there was a whole bunch of girls, my sixth grade class who were doing stuff in the woods with boys that were shocking. So they were ready. And that's fine. We all mature and our hormones all you know, fire up at different times. But the dance was this arbitrary like, this is what's expected of you.
Carolyn Cochrane 36:50
That's totally true. So yeah, so we've all crossed that threshold. And now we're in the room, the space, what's happening to us, or what are we listening to? Okay,
Kristin Nilsen 37:00
so I think once you're in the room, we need to talk about the most important element of the middle school dance besides the wiggling. It's the very the very foundation of the existence of the middle school dance. It's the thing that cements these memories in our brains forever. And that's the music.
We've talked on this show before about the reminiscence bump. And that's a scientifically proven phenomenon in which people remember the songs from their youth in a far more powerful way than they do the songs from adulthood. You can name that tune in one note, if it's from the year you turned 14, you know every word, even if it wasn't a song you loved, it didn't matter. And they, you know, you heard it on the radio all the time. So it didn't really matter whether you liked it or not. And they think the reason you can remember these songs better is because you were hearing them at a time when you were growing up. And you were experiencing lots of things for the first time, memorable things like your first dance. And so the music you were hearing attaches to that memory. I don't have any memories to attach to Taylor Swift. So because I'm not doing any first things anymore, so I have trouble singing along with Taylor Swift the way the kids today do. So we asked our followers to share the songs that they remember from their first dances, and it was so funny. I don't know why it's funny. Exactly. Maybe. Maybe because the songs exemplify the mellow drama that is associated with an angsty teen rave? Yes. When we talk about school dances, we most often think of the slow dances, which is funny because there probably weren't as many slow dances as there were fast dances. And for some of us, the slow songs were terrifying, right? Like the slow song comes on. And you're like, what now?
Michelle Newman 38:59
You don't know eyes? Or go
Kristin Nilsen 39:02
to the bathroom? It's time to go to the bathroom. Right? Everybody exits the gym.
Michelle Newman 39:06
It's like when we talked about couple skate? Yes, right. Gotta not and my skate Yeah,
Kristin Nilsen 39:10
I'm gonna get something to drink. I'm thirsty. When it was
Carolyn Cochrane 39:12
coming. It's like, oh, my gosh, there have been three fast songs. The next one is going to be the slow one.
Michelle Newman 39:18
Ya know, I certainly had lots of blisters.
Kristin Nilsen 39:22
It's true. That was either when you stood against the wall, and you just prayed for somebody to choose you, or you ran away and you hid in the bathroom. But maybe that is the answer. The memory that is cemented is the one that is grounded in either ecstasy or fear. Right. That's why we remember the songs so hard. But people did mention the fast songs that they remembered maybe because this is where some of your joy was unleashed. Maybe for the first time maybe you'd never unleashed your body like that before. And I thought it would be fun to just let you listen to some of the songs that were mentioned most often in chronological order, because we weren't all in middle school or junior high At the same time we were all there and you know, just a few years difference can make a big difference in the music you were listening to. So enjoy this medley of songs you remember from your first school dances
Unknown Speaker 40:19
everybody
Unknown Speaker 41:01
is melting honestly very nice
Unknown Speaker 41:18
there's no need to feel down round
Unknown Speaker 41:54
goody goody two shoes. Good, good and good about James I was going down, inside out. We're gonna rock this down, stream and shout
Speaker 1 42:30
We come down so we can leave your friends behind because of friendzone downs and if they don't dance, no friends of mine
Michelle Newman 42:54
the funniest thing though, like so many of these songs do bring back memories. And I would like to include the Go Go's in there because, yeah, we would have an extra bounce. Yes, you really can find out who has rhythm and who doesn't, right. And so basically, if you can picture step touch, and maybe you're doing a little clap as you touch picture though when the clap comes maybe before the time comes not on the beat. And that's how about 98% of the boys in my seventh grade class dance. The memories of dancing are pretty funny. Late 70s Kelly remembers dancing degrees lightning and doing all the hand motions. We have to
Kristin Nilsen 43:33
how can you Yeah, that's an that's a gift at at a school dance to have a choreography that people know because now you don't have to come up with it on your own. So I know how to wiggle. I'm just going to do what John Travolta did.
Michelle Newman 43:45
Right and even the boys can get into that. That's right. And you know those years of our youth all the boys salaries as well. Julie remembers 1977 in her PE class, they learned the hustle. You guys I want to be in that PE class. That is a way more valuable skill than learning how to play. What were dance.
Kristin Nilsen 44:05
We did that too. Yeah, it was targeted the dancing unit. We leave the house and the bus down we learned the bus stop we learned the hustle. Yeah,
Carolyn Cochrane 44:13
I had to go to Marcia Highland School of Dance for the disco lessons, which were all just for these middle school dances I've decided and I met my my friend Debbie. So we did actually probably hold hands and do some of those disco couples dances but yes, that was that's where the money came in.
Michelle Newman 44:30
You do over? Julie also says that then the eighth grade girls came over to her house to show her dance moves before her first dance is
Carolyn Cochrane 44:39
always jealous of those girls that had like the older girls but like you know, that kind of took them under their wing.
Kristin Nilsen 44:45
Show me what to do, please. I want choreography tell me specifically.
Michelle Newman 44:49
I know. Alana is from I think that's how we say this a lot as remembers in eighth grade voguing and someone rolling their eyes at her to which I should A knot your people a lot.
Kristin Nilsen 45:01
Right exactly away from school
Michelle Newman 45:04
I know. And Josie Oh 504 nails it with a memory that I think we just have mentioned several times, but you can't not the slow dance rock arms stretched just to touch each other shoulders and just rocking back and forth. Maybe your feet don't even move. Maybe you stay in one place. We don't even need to rotate, and then you start to get dizzy. How many times return keep turning in circles, right.
Kristin Nilsen 45:28
I danced one particular way. It is the way that all of the girls danced it we were exactly the same. And it is the Molly Ringwald dance from Breakfast Club.
Michelle Newman 45:38
Oh, that's a good one.
Kristin Nilsen 45:38
It is the your jump can jump kick, jump kick and you're swinging the arms that jump kick, jump kick, and it's exhausting. And the next day you would have shin splints. I remember that. Specifically. I heard on
Carolyn Cochrane 45:52
the front of my head was such that was a classic move a class. Yeah. dance move. Well, following up on what you were talking about Michelle about the slow dance and the arms, you know, on each other's shoulders. My sister has a memory of kind of the evolution of the slow dance. And you could tell she said by the way, people were slow dancing. What kind of relationship they have? Yes. So she said yes. Start with that awkward kind of both hands are on the shoulders. Yeah. And your swing and then your arms are straight, straight, straight. There's not close at all, then you might move a little bit like, oh, there might be a little something more here with the guide my hands down to your waist. Yeah, the elbows. And yeah, his hands might be on your waist and your hands or maybe on his shoulders. And then my sister said, and then you're much closer. You're like his arms are wrapped around your waist. There's always the sway going on. But it's kind of where are the hands and arms during the swing moment. So as we're doing as we're swaying and all of that, what might we be listening to?
Kristin Nilsen 46:52
Yes, let's talk about the slow songs, the songs that were tailor made for that first school of dance where kids are scared to be in love, but wanting to be in love, and some are play acting and being in love making the rest of us feel like we're doing it wrong, because we're not in love. And it's all on full display. When one of the songs comes on at the school dance. There were some classic universal choices. And then there were some surprises that I'll share later. That turned out to be universal. Weird, a surprise that was universal. And I'll share like I said I'll share those with you in a minute. But first, please enjoy this medley of songs you may or may not have danced to at your school dance once again in chronological order, starting with our Boomer adjacent listeners ending with our millennial adjacent listeners. Okay, and this first one cracks me up because I think of Carolyn whether clarinet Nana nanana nanana
she's gone she's gone. Oh, wow. Oh, wow. I want to learn how to take it. Which I have to tell you that a friend of mine calls that song Ola. Because when her child was in the backseat in the car seat and he's like mama play Oh, ah, Mama play Oh, and she's like what in the hell are you talking about? Oh, wow. Oh, wow. I gotta learn how to take it. Baby Come back didn't need a knee. You can blame it all on me. I was wrong. Dance with me. I want to be your partner dance with me. Can't you see whatever and then and don't judge our accuracy by any means. How deep is your love? How deep is your love? I really need to learn that's how it gets really high. Yeah, once twice always play it three times. Yeah, yeah. Okay, that's good and oh and I think this is the best choice and I can't even really sing it because all I can do is bad that's not how it goes. I can't think bad
Speaker 1 49:06
I hear you call in but I can come home the boys are playing and we just can't
Kristin Nilsen 49:23
just so funny kiss would have a slow dance song she's always a woman to me reunited and yeah feel so good cherish I can't think of cherish either the cool in the game one
Michelle Newman 49:39
Oh yeah.
Kristin Nilsen 49:42
Gang is that there's so many cherishes so many cherishes? lying beside? The die is gonna keep on loving you. Because that's the only thing I want to do. Okay, here this song was almost the number one mentioned song, but it was not it's number two. Babe I'm leaving my way oh yeah Tom is drawing me and he always says drawing it's Jawi ni Oh yeah, only you by Yazz which I can't say
I want to know what love is I hate that song. You're the inspiration okay, how do we do this one? It's a hard habit to break a lot of Chicago remember
Michelle Newman 50:48
all those Chicago's I have one on my list that I only put two songs on my list and they have yet to be sung. Yeah.
Kristin Nilsen 50:55
Oh, well, we're not done yet. Okay, making love out of nothing at all making love. Love I know. Totally eclipsed. Well, how are you seeing that one? Okay, because I'm truly Oh, you can't even do it. I'm gonna cry. truly in love with you girl. That is my elusive song. That was the one that was my pity dance with Neil Miller when he asked me to dance with him and then the elusive elusive it commenced. Africa can you sing Africa for me? Let's
Carolyn Cochrane 51:33
see. Bless the rains down
Kristin Nilsen 51:39
I can't remember how Amanda goes by Boston
I just remember was a big deal because Boston had a slow song and nobody had heard a slow song from Boston before. How can I sing against all odds? That one is so good the Phil Collins song Yeah, you're the only one who really knew me at all. Oh, breaks away. Oh my God. Never say goodbye which is Bon Jovi I also can't come up with that one
Carolyn Cochrane 52:35
so it's not the one never can say
Kristin Nilsen 52:36
goodbye go No no no no no, you're fine Jovi roll of oil goes back in time and the eternal flame that's the bangles let's see how does the worse than me
It must have been love
Donna what were your songs Michelle.
Michelle Newman 53:11
My two are love lift us up where we belong.
Carolyn Cochrane 53:16
That's Officer John. Yeah.
Michelle Newman 53:19
The gentleman that came in the other word came to me immediately when I thought like what do we play with? I'm sorry hard to say I'm sorry did you did it but I just thought all right yeah.
Kristin Nilsen 53:29
Oh yeah, that's that's a third most you have a hard habit to break hard to say I'm sorry, you're the inspiration but there was one song I didn't put in the medley because it was mentioned so many times. And it was such a surprise to me that I decided it needed its Oh, I know when this segment please enjoy the landslide number one slow song from the comments section of the pop culture Preservation Society.
Speaker 1 53:57
There's the who show all that glitters is gold. And she's finding the stairway
Kristin Nilsen 54:10
which there were a couple of songs that never got mentioned not a single time that kind of surprised me that I want to just drop in here very quickly. Like I think they're like lovely
Michelle Newman 54:22
gentleman was the cutest so so first thing that came to my mind when I was thinking of slow dancing was how
Kristin Nilsen 54:28
did that not appear in the comments? I can't believe it. I think these are school dance classics and if they're not they should have been school dance classics. The first one is
Unknown Speaker 54:43
show me
Kristin Nilsen 54:51
is that of course is more than words by the band extreme and it was a number one hit in 1991 For our young Gen X's, I think that was made for swaying back and forth with somebody that you barely knew, but you wanted to marry. And the video was all over MTV. And it just got people in the fields so hard if you remember the video, it was the two guys sort of in shadow with the acoustic guitar and then the long straight hair. Oh, sexy. But the other one that no one said is my number one pick for a middle school dance in the Genex era. And it has an interesting history, meaning some of us will think that this is a middle school dance song. And some of us will think that this is a high school or college dance song, and it is the Sox
Unknown Speaker 55:38
lost in.
Kristin Nilsen 55:58
But I do have to ask you guys this because there is a certain interesting story about this song. Do you remember when that song was popular for you? Do you remember like what grade you were in? Or where you say
Carolyn Cochrane 56:09
I was in college? I feel like okay, so I would say it would be 83 after 83.
Kristin Nilsen 56:15
Okay, and Michelle, you don't remember. Okay, so this is an interesting story. It was released in 1983. In my area, it was a huge hit a giant hit. And this is squarely in the junior high dance era. Okay, it was in constant rotation. But it only reached number 63 on the charts. That's not really that big of a hit. So it's possible that a lot of people don't remember it from 1983. But then, in 1989, my local radio station Katy WB started playing it again, just randomly, as if it were a new single, other radio station started catching on. And they started playing it too. And it caught on across the nation. And when I'm with you hit number one, five years after the band had broken up.
Carolyn Cochrane 57:06
Oh my goodness. Oh, really?
Kristin Nilsen 57:08
It was a hit twice. It was a hit twice. And I remember when
Carolyn Cochrane 57:12
a station Yes. catapulted that. Wow. Which
Kristin Nilsen 57:16
explains a lot about my memory of it.
Carolyn Cochrane 57:28
Not all the action at our middle school dances was taking place on the dance floor. There was a lot of drama in the hallways and in the bathrooms. One of our followers Ellen Kane, her memory is lots of running to the bathroom with a group of girls. Very important memory. Right. And I believe if I'm not mistaken, don't both of you have some pretty distinct middle school dance memories where you ran to the bathroom? Oh,
Kristin Nilsen 57:56
yes. Because of truly. Okay, that's true, because I got my PT dance, right with Neil Miller. But But I knew it was over. There was nothing. There was nothing to be done. I knew it was a pity dance. And when truly was over I melodramatically ran from the dance to the bathroom. And I you know, I possibly even put my hand on my forehead as I ran. And people were like chasing like Kristen. Kristen. Are you okay? And like leave me alone.
Michelle Newman 58:23
When that's that. That's the image I have of running to the bathroom after somebody's like, Oh my god. Oh my god is Paul okay. Did you go really fast to go the whole friend group has to go Yeah, or, you know, grab someone's hand because like, I have to tell someone that oh my god, guess who just I think is going to ask me to dance right now.
Kristin Nilsen 58:44
And this is so funny. This comes from Jen. She says a million people conspiring to get me and David Kaplan to slow dance for the last 15 seconds of the song that were left by prying eyes from separate bathrooms. And that's where she says I'm pretty sure as wearing black and white polka dot shortfalls. Yeah.
Carolyn Cochrane 58:59
And I liked that she where she said every dance that she went to ended with Hall and Oates. She's gone. Oh, wow. Oh, wow. last final song, I thought that was so funny. Well, again, my sister totally who screwed me with a memory from middle school dances. And it has to do with walking to the bathroom. And maybe just because you had to go, you know, because sometimes that's actually why you went to the bathroom. And it are on the way to go to the bathroom from our cafeteria. You walked by this one hallway. It wasn't cut off by like a metal gate and the lights were kind of on. It was a short hallway. And that would be where people would go to kind of make out. And that's where you would. So you would see that hallway on the way to go to the bathroom. And so sometimes your friends would say don't look don't look as you would go by and you kind of knew which automatically meant you better look. And then when she was telling me that I just it was like I got sucked back in a time machine. I felt that feeling of looking down that hallway, I can even remember the people now. I mean, it was my Ed. I don't think it was it wasn't the same night as the mistletoe in him with you know, another girl just making out. When
Kristin Nilsen 1:00:13
you say my Ed, you mean the guy that you danced with you're
Carolyn Cochrane 1:00:18
exactly but he wasn't at that point. It was just my crush at that point. Like he wasn't anything. But that feeling. Again, that roller coaster of emotions and there is a distinct visceral response I have when that person you're longing for whether it's this middle school crush or a college Crusher, whatever, and you see them with someone else. Oh my god. Oh my god, it just Yes. And I when she said that I was transported. Yeah. And that feeling came flooding back. And it's just such that like, oh, there's no hope. I don't know. It was just so
Kristin Nilsen 1:00:54
okay. Do you know what it is? For me? I'm really identifying the feelings now. For me when I see my Ed making out with somebody after he kissed me under the mistletoe. It's humiliation. Like I've been add. And I was foolish enough to for a moment believe in my own fantasy. I am. Yes. And you've made a fool of me. Yeah. And you just want to like curl into a little ball and disappear. Right?
Carolyn Cochrane 1:01:18
You're almost you're like embarrassed for yourself. It's like you don't no one else probably embarrassed for you. But you're just like, what a waste of a dream and all those things. Yes. So hard.
We kind of knew the dance was kind of over, the lights would go up in that gym, or in that cafeteria, and the you know, last notes of last dance or she's gone. We're playing and we're all kind of, you know, shuffling out with our group of friends. Although I do remember my friend Debbie, kind of got a boyfriend during one middle school dance. And so I think you know, he asked if she would go with him. And you know, she said yes. And so they are walking out hand in hand. And we are like, Oh my gosh, because, of course, we're gonna happen. I know. And we're gonna have a sleepover that night. Yeah, we're gonna get to dissect all of this. So for a lot of us, that's kind of how the evening ultimately ended was that we went home and our parents were all lined up outside and a carpool line. got in the car of the friend's parents who we were going to go sleep over at their house. And we'd go there to just debrief who was with who. And as we've talked about other times, and we promise you listeners, the sleepover is an episode in and of itself. Oh, yeah. So that won't be heard. He is yes, the Slumber Party that promise is coming in and up coming episode,
Michelle Newman 1:02:50
get your Weegee boards ready.
Kristin Nilsen 1:03:06
So whether you have fond memories of your first dance, or you're permanently scarred by it, or even if you were too scared and stayed home on the couch, on this day, we can all say, we survived. We did not die. Just like our moms told us even though we were sure that we would, no matter how it went down for you, you made it to adulthood. Congratulations. And if your memories aren't happy once it's not too late. For your next birthday, rent out a church basement, make a middle school dance playlist and invite your friends. I promise you it'll be so much easier than the first time around and you can raise a glass to the fact that you all survived puberty. Thanks so much for listening today, and we will see you next time.
Michelle Newman 1:03:45
That'd be a blast. I'm
Kristin Nilsen 1:03:47
gonna do there will be fun. Get a mellow mix. Yeah, make a mellow. Everybody put like
Michelle Newman 1:03:52
pretend braces on? Yeah, I'll wear a headgear that side pony. Well, today's episode was brought to you by sweet honesty, tickled deodorant, funny bow and these fine patrons at one time donors, Terry, Colleen, Gail, Valerie, Mike, Liz, Debbie, Kim, Joan, Erica, and Mary.
Carolyn Cochrane 1:04:17
And you guys, we have lots of fun links to fun things in our email newsletter, The Weekly Reader so if you are not already subscribed, I promise you want to be that you can do by going to our website@preservationists.com or at our Lincoln bio on Instagram, because this week's issue is going to have a link to our ultimate middle school dance Spotify list. There are going to be video clips to that Freaks and Geeks scene and maybe some photos of Michelle and that lovely drop ways of tiered dress with a straw hat
Michelle Newman 1:04:49
with a white straw hat and
Kristin Nilsen 1:04:52
in the meantime, let's raise our glasses for a toast courtesy of the cast of Three's Company. Two good times to Happy
Michelle Newman 1:04:58
Days to little how On
Carolyn Cochrane 1:05:00
the Prairie Jr's
Kristin Nilsen 1:05:05
the information, opinions and comments expressed on the pop culture Preservation Society podcast belongs solely to Carolyn the crush ecologist and hello Newman, and are in no way representative of our employers or affiliates. And though we truly believe we are always right, there's always a first time the PCPs is written, produced and recorded in Minneapolis, Minnesota, home of the fictional w j m studios and our beloved Mary Richards Nananana. Keep on truckin and may the Force be with you.