Our Purple Rain Book Report: SUPERSIZED EDITION

Kristin Nilsen 0:01

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Michelle Newman 1:07

Welcome everyone to another one of our fun summer reruns. This time we are rerunning Episode 96, our Purple Rain book report and why we are rerunning that this week we'll get to in just a minute. But first, recently, we have lost Gosh, a small handful of some people that were really big and our Gen X lives. And so we just kind of wanted to take a moment to recognize them. Mention them remember them. What are you guys thinking? We've lost Richard Simmons, Dr. Ruth, Shelley Duvall and then just yesterday or just this past weekend, Shannon Doherty.

Kristin Nilsen 1:48

I think all of these people the reason this is important to talk about is because all of these people are emblematic of a time. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Right. Richard Simmons, we could we laughed at Richard Simmons. But we also loved him. We embrace them laughed at him. But every no one didn't like Richard Simmons. Did de and silly he was your monster. Yes, you're a monster because he wished nothing but love for the world.

Carolyn Cochrane 2:14

Right. And you can see that with just the the array of posts that I've seen on social media, the people that are posting about having met him and you know, everybody from Katie Couric to Jane Fonda. Across the board, people were impacted by Richard Simmons and he is such a distinct voice in my head too. I can still hear him. There are just some celebrities and some voices from my life that can close my eyes and I am sweating to the oldies. I can just, I can feel it. Yeah, well,

Michelle Newman 2:45

he exuded light, and life and happiness and think how many lives he changed? Yeah, yeah. How many women and men too, who did go on his sweat into the oldest cruisers or just by his VHS has? He changed their lives? And I'm not necessarily talking about because they lost weight. But he empowered them and he gave them you know, he boosted their self esteem and he made them feel seen and he Yeah, yeah, he was just, I mean, just a good human. He

Carolyn Cochrane 3:15

was such a brand too. It wasn't just the exercise videos. He was on general hospital. He was on David Letterman. He had a regular Luke No, I saw a clip where he and Lesley Webber were on the screen so he had you know I'm sure a little cameo on General Hospital that he ended up having his own show the Richard Simmons show which was like a different with a different genre the

Kristin Nilsen 3:44

media he didn't he wear like the little tank top and the little shorts. Well, I'll just talk show

Michelle Newman 3:49

on the dolphin shorts. Yes, I think

Kristin Nilsen 3:51

so though. I think

Carolyn Cochrane 3:54

it was his brand. Yeah. Yeah. All right, often saw him without kind of an outro.

Kristin Nilsen 3:59

We're seeing him without the dolphin shorts and shorts. I know. Talking about being a symbol of being utterly who you are. Right? In a time when people were really cruel. I mean, people are cruel now, but especially around people's sexuality. We don't know anything at all about his sexuality. By the way, we have no idea. We have no information. However, he presented in a way that a lot of people would want to mock in those days. And he just held on to every ounce of who he was. And he never pretended to be anything different.

Carolyn Cochrane 4:30

Right? I think that's why a lot of people loved him too. Because exactly that Yes. didn't pretend to be anybody else. Which leads me to the next icon that we lost recently. In Dr. Ruth because she's somebody else, I think, who was authentically who she was. She did not fake it. She was in her 50s You guys when we got to know her kind of when she had this, this meteoric rise, and all of a sudden she was everywhere. Hear and that's another voice I can still hear when I close my eyes. German accent preached

Michelle Newman 5:06

to us not to fake it 96 If that's not a testament to what sex can do for another one Yeah, and just being true to your sexuality, you know, just like embracing your sexuality and living it. I mean, that's a good life. So

Kristin Nilsen 5:26

when you talk about Dr. Ruth and and the good that she did the role that she played in our culture, again, something that a lot of people could poke fun at. But here's one very important thing that could have literally changed the culture. Until Dr. Ruth, I did not know that masturbating wasn't bad.

Michelle Newman 5:46

Oh, really? Judy Blume? Judy,

Kristin Nilsen 5:48

I think that I don't think so. Because I think in Judy blooms book, I wasn't sure what they were doing. Okay, I think that they were like tickling your armpit. Right. That's what I wasn't. I wasn't really do

Michelle Newman 6:02

that too. Right. That's all good. It's not unpleasant.

Kristin Nilsen 6:09

Yeah, it was just the first person to literally say it out loud. Yes. Judy Blume put it on the page to normalize it. No, it's true. Whether or not you understood what they were doing. But she said the word out loud, right. Like this is something that's good for you. She said, The words out loud. It is. Yeah. And, and I didn't question her. She's the expert. So all right. Right. And that literally, I'm can't be the only one that must be of people who changed their minds about something because of Dr. Ruth. And

Carolyn Cochrane 6:38

I think that was her mission to that's kind of why she was speaking and why she thought it was so important to normalize these conversations.

Kristin Nilsen 6:52

Questlove actually made a post with Shelly Duvall as olive oil. And he said, I know everybody's talking about these really important movies, Nashville and the shining. But he said for me, she will always be olive oil. And she and same as you currently says, Yeah, I hear that voice. I hear the Shelly Duvall voice. And that movie was not a huge success. But for people our age, I think it was iconic. No matter how many dollars it made at the box office. It was iconic. We were seeing Popeye and olive oil in the flesh.

Michelle Newman 7:23

It was it was live action. One of the first live actions we probably saw. Yeah, you're

Carolyn Cochrane 7:27

right. And she was olive oil to me. And, you know, if I had to take the cartoon character and put her into a real person, that is exactly why would have cast. She's perfect for it to talk about

Kristin Nilsen 7:40

perfect casting. It's almost like she wasn't like that's who she wasn't real life. That was her head and stuff like that. She just,

Michelle Newman 7:47

she played Shelly Duvall. Yeah. How old was she?

Kristin Nilsen 7:52

76. So she was not old.

Carolyn Cochrane 7:54

She wasn't old.

Michelle Newman 7:55

I mean, Richard Simmons 76, as well. But you think of 70s Now that we're in our 50s is not old, but at least I still think of that as a lifetime. Yeah. Which makes Shannon Doherty's passing just so so tragic, because she's our age you guys and she had so much more life to live and so much, so many more lessons to teach. I mean, we all knew she was ill. And she had been ill for quite some time. But man, she was fighting the good fight.

Kristin Nilsen 8:27

And she was a symbol for people who were coming of age in the early 1990s. No matter what you thought of her whether you liked Brenda Walsh or didn't like Brenda Walsh, it doesn't really matter because that show when the kids on Beverly, Beverly Hills 902. I know. That was people's adolescence that made up people's adolescence and so this is gonna hurt for a lot of people.

Michelle Newman 8:49

I can't even imagine because they hurt when she was diagnosed.

Unknown Speaker 8:55

Yeah

Michelle Newman 9:01

so guy Gilchrist listeners, he was Jim Henson's cartoonist. He is the author of many Muppet books. He's still going strong. He is a huge PCPs fan and friend and just all around lovely human. He had a post yesterday or the other day and it just was a picture of Shannon and it said we met briefly at 90s Con last year. I knew that she was really going through it. She was incredibly brave, addressing her challenges with her fans and with everyone in attendance. I am grateful that I met such a strong woman who was at peace and wanting to share her strength with everyone around her. And I thought that was a really lovely tribute from Gaia.

Unknown Speaker 9:43

I think

Carolyn Cochrane 9:44

for me, that might end up being her legacy is what she's done in the last few years since she kind of announced her cancer because if you remember Nimbus reputation kind of back when she was Brenda bye But it's like she evolved from that. And then she did all of this good. And we got a message from one of our PCPs followers, Jeff Lewis. And I really liked what he said, in reference to Shannon. And he said, I just have to say, how she, how I think she represented our generation, she messed up. But she was looking to have fun. And she kept learning and kept getting better up until the very end. And she had great friends along the way. And I kind of liked that the way he said, like, yeah, we know what she the reputation she had early on, but she didn't let that define her. We all made mistakes, we all goofed up. And as a generation, there's stuff in the 80s, we might have done that we're not proud of, but we didn't let that be who we are. And we keep growing. And we keep learning. I just thought that was a beautiful way to describe her and kind of Generation X in a way. Yeah, it's just hard when these celebrities that we've we've talked about this before, but that marked a part of our growing up and our youth and it's going to start happening you guys only more and more often. But it feels good. You know, there's like a little gut punch in there. Unlike if it's, I don't know different celebrities. These are the ones that just really made me pause and I get kind of a I really choked up feeling

Kristin Nilsen 11:18

the people that we invited into our lives. Yeah, actually, we invited them into our homes, we invited them into our growing up journey. And when they start leaving us, it impacts us differently.

Michelle Newman 11:28

Little bits of our childhood. Yeah. Yeah, can't

Kristin Nilsen 11:32

have a conversation about losing your Gen X idols without talking about prints. And on July 27, it will be the 40th anniversary of the release of Purple Rain, which blows my mind. You're old. 40 years ago, I was driving in my friend's Camaro with my barefoot out the window. Listening to When Doves Cry, this is nutty. How could I have even been a fully formed person. And the celebrations will be happening here in Minneapolis on July 27, the actual anniversary they're going to be showing Purple Rain at Target Center, which is where the Timberwolves play and the links and the links that is right. Thank you. And I think it's going to be a lovin I think it's going to be oh my gosh, keep

Michelle Newman 12:24

everybody's singing It's gonna be so we talk about in this episode, I talk about the people that were extras that Kristen still salty about that. Yeah, about not being extra. But how they were there all day. And it was like they just kept getting concert after concert after concert from Prince. And we talked about how they knew all the little hand motions and they all do the dance and they're all singing. It's going to be like that on steroids because it's going to be the entire arena singing those songs and doing all the hand motions to I would die for you and all the things how fun Gosh, that you know why? I just got so excited as if I'm going. I live in Denver. I'm not going but if I if I were going I would we another thing we talked about it and I don't know if it's this episode or not. But how so many of them had all the little things stuck the makeup little symbols on their eyes from the 80s Right? Yes, we had drapes on there not Yeah, not just the eyeliner, but yeah, had the little triangle on like on their cheekbone. Or I would I would totally dress like 1984 Oh, it's

Kristin Nilsen 13:27

gonna be it's not just as more than a party. And I'm sad that I can't go I won't be in town to go and you know

Carolyn Cochrane 13:32

what else they are going to be honoring collaborators from the movie after the screening of it. So there are going to be people that Prince collaborated with that are actually going to be there at the event and you're gonna get to see them as well. So it sounds like a lot of fun. And guess how much the tickets are? How much 1999?

Yeah, so that's a nice way to honor him here in his hometown of Minneapolis. And speaking of which, listeners not sure if you've heard but Purple Rain is being adapted into a musical, a Broadway musical actually. And it will debut here in Minneapolis, Prince's hometown, and spring of 2025. So next spring, we'll get the first look at it. But then for sure it is then going on to Broadway. So it is a Broadway production. And we get to see it first here and I can only imagine because it was one of Prince's dreams to have this adapted for the stage. So this is kind of fulfilling that for him. And I think Man, this could make a really cool live musical. I can see adduction I can see it. Yeah,

Michelle Newman 14:49

I can see. I like it better than I'm not a fan of jukebox musicals where they just take the music of Green Day and then they make a story out of it. Right that's what I'm liking better. because it's already a story. Yeah. So here's my problem is that who is going to fill those shoes? No, buddy. Oh, and I know that Nobody's expecting to I mean, you look at the Michael Jackson musical and the clips I've seen of that. The people they've had playing him are phenomenal. But oh, gosh, that's, I mean hard. It's hard and then talk about the pressure. If you're, you're elated, and then you're terrified because you have or you're gonna have so much scrutiny on you. But I do think it's going to be a cool show. I do think it is. Yeah,

Carolyn Cochrane 15:35

yeah. Well, you might have to fly in lots of fine. I

Michelle Newman 15:39

want 100% I'm there. Okay, awesome. And so anyway, speaking of honoring Purple Rain on the 27th by going to Target Center and seeing it or by waiting until next year and going and seeing the musical we have a really great idea Why don't you listen to this rerun of episode 96 right now today, and that's a great way to honor Purple Rain so enjoy

and I never once got and if you're evil, I'll forgive you by and by never I wonder what I

Unknown Speaker 16:25

was saying come on get

Unknown Speaker 16:36

will make you

Michelle Newman 16:38

welcome to the pop culture Preservation Society. The podcast for people born in the big wheel generation who remember what it was like to stand in line to sharpen your pencil, or even to use a pencil I guess.

Kristin Nilsen 16:51

We believe our Gen X childhoods gave us unforgettable songs, stories, characters and images. And if we don't talk about them, they'll disappear like Marshall will and Holly on a routine expedition. And

Carolyn Cochrane 17:02

today, we'll continue our discussion of the movie that showed the world that Minneapolis was a long way from Walnut Grove, the iconic 80s Music extravaganza, Purple Rain. I'm Carolyn.

Kristin Nilsen 17:16

I'm Kristen.

Michelle Newman 17:17

And I'm Michelle and we are your pop culture preservationists.

Kristin Nilsen 17:31

Welcome back to part two of our discussion about our discussion that immediately followed our viewing of the movie that define the 80s for so many of us Prince's Purple Rain. Last week we asked Carolyn and Michelle how they managed to miss this movie when it came out in 1984. And the complete answer surprised all of us. Yes, even them. You'll have to listen to that episode to find out what that was. We also shared some stories that came from you the listeners. The people who went to purple rain for their first dates, the podcast host Whose 12 year old brother rented the VCR and the movie and set it up in her bedroom for her 16th birthday. And then there was this her Oh Shane

Unknown Speaker 18:08

purple Shane. Yes,

Kristin Nilsen 18:10

that was us singing purple Shane, the nickname given to our friend Shane, who saw the movie so many times he earned the nickname purple shade. But today, we will discuss the story of Purple Rain, because honestly, I couldn't even remember the story. The performances were burned into my brain. But if you had asked what the movie was about, I'm not sure I could have told you.

Carolyn Cochrane 18:32

And what we discovered is that when we discussed the story and the performances together a much deeper understanding of prints and the story he was trying to tell revealed itself. And we will let you listen in on parts of that conversation we had in Kristen's attic just minutes after finishing that movie. At

Michelle Newman 18:50

first I thought seeing this movie with 53 year old eyes was a bad idea. There are some very painful and disturbing things that I don't think a lot of people caught with their 16 year old eyes in 1984. But like all good book clubs reveal, it's possible that the pain and the disturbing content might be the point. And it's only now as adults that we can bring it out into the light and benefit from the messages. Amen.

Kristin Nilsen 19:16

I think you're right about that. So like we mentioned last week, Purple Rain opens with the monologue to let's go crazy, Dearly Beloved.

Unknown Speaker 19:27

We are gathered into this thing called like

Kristin Nilsen 19:31

the performance is cut with quick edits of the people places and things that will make up this movie. The purpose of let's go crazy is to tell us everything we need to know about what's going to happen in the next 90 minutes. It shows us who the players are, what the setting is, and that the theme of this movie is going to be figuring out how to get through this thing called life.

Michelle Newman 19:53

Even that gives me goosebumps just you saying it like that? I don't know I swear. So we see that are set thing is First Avenue, the iconic music venue in downtown Minneapolis where Prince, aka the kid is playing with his band the revolution. We see the streets of Minneapolis outside the club. And you guys that was super fun for me to see now that I've lived here for like, I don't know, 20 million years. It made me get why everyone in Minneapolis must have gone crazy. Yeah. But But But for real, like I could see how exciting that would have been as a 16 year old going. And then there's the corner, and then I know where he is right now. And there's history.

Kristin Nilsen 20:32

Been there. And all of that is gone now much except for First Avenue. First Avenue still stands. Everything that was across the street from First Avenue was demolished and now there's a big concert venue. A big stadium across the street. Yeah.

Michelle Newman 20:46

And we made all of our players like Maurice de and Jerome Benton members of Prince's rival band, the time watching skeptically from the sidelines as the revolution plays.

Carolyn Cochrane 21:00

Right, and then we see a cab pull up in front of the club. The door opens and we meet Apollonia she's arriving in Minneapolis to ask the owner of first avenue for a job as a performer. She's dressed in this kind of black cape thing, and I lucked out. I know wasn't that cool? And she had the iconic, beautiful total 80s Big hair. Alright, she

Kristin Nilsen 21:23

had such beautiful hair. Such great hair,

Unknown Speaker 21:25

flawless skin.

Kristin Nilsen 21:27

I had those boots. You did? I had those boots. My mom bought them for me at Berman buckskin. And they were two sizes too small. And I did not care. They were so painful. You guys. I would just be like hobbling around. And my mom would say you should just get shoes that are your size, but they didn't have them in my size. Yeah. And then it was worth it. Yes worth it. So it's also during let's go crazy when we meet what should be considered one of the characters of the film. And that is the audience at First Avenue. Oh,

Michelle Newman 21:59

yeah, we talked about that a lot last week, for those of you who listened to part one, but just that they were so stereotypical 80s Teenagers and just the best way possible. Yeah.

Kristin Nilsen 22:11

Amplified with the colors of the 80s If you think about like fuchsia, and turquoise, everything was they had makeup that was like the blush would be like a red wine that was on your cheek. You even the men would have the sparkly stripes that were painted on their foreheads and even during the song you would see lots of footage of people putting on makeup. Even the men putting on makeup people in the band putting on makeup when they're getting ready to go out on stage. Makeup was big. Oh geez.

Michelle Newman 22:43

Hey, the boys in Duran Duran wore it. That's

Kristin Nilsen 22:47

true. Yeah. In fact, if you think about all the people that are being cut during let's go crazy all the people in the audience they're showing look like the cover of Duran drains. Which album? Is it? The famous the famous artist Michelle? Oh,

Michelle Newman 23:01

like Rio? Like the name of the Patrick Nagel? Yes, that's exactly.

Kristin Nilsen 23:05

Yes. Of the people in the audience look like the cover of that album. Yeah,

Carolyn Cochrane 23:09

totally. That vibe and the geometric kind of feel to, to everything. Yes. Oh, yeah.

Michelle Newman 23:16

So then after let's go crazy, which is one of my very favorite print songs, by the way, because you know, I'm nothing if not original. After all that joy and just the Bebop and the dancing. We get to see the strife that's building backstage at First Avenue. The revolution is in disarray. Band members and fan faves. Wendy and Lisa are clearly frustrated with the kid because he won't give their music anytime on stage, only his own. What a brat. Morris day and the time walk by their dressing room and they mock them with the singsong II tante version of let's go crazy, which is really mean but we kind of love it. I know, but we kind of love them because there's fats. They're fabulous and funny, and they're still love them. But it's a really melancholic moment because the kid seems very alone. Yeah, he really does.

Carolyn Cochrane 24:07

He really does. And then he gets home and we can see why he might feel so alone. He lives at home with his parents who are not okay at all. He often walks in on violent altercations between the two of them. He tries to protect his mother but is often struck by his father when he does. And I remember in this scene, the achy feeling I felt for Prince when he walked in on that beating. It's like instead of this adult prints, I saw a little boy. Yes, this was no doubt not the first time he had witnessed this violence and just my heart broke for that little boy who had just grown up watching his father beat his mother. And he

Kristin Nilsen 24:44

does he like runs into the room and he throws his body at his father to try and stop him and his father just flings him away just like a gnat. It's just you're right. He seems so small, like a little boy

Carolyn Cochrane 24:55

does and you know that that wasn't the first time that he's done that that he used to It, you know, thrown his body at this man who is Yeah, beating up his mother.

Michelle Newman 25:06

It's such a good illustration of you just never know what people are going through. He's very competent on stage. And he's very showy. And he's having a great time. And then you see what's happening at home. And it's it is true. It's just like, you know, they always say you don't judge people. You never know what what you're

Kristin Nilsen 25:23

there's such a contrast there. The bravado from First Avenue contrasted with this difficulty at home. That's exactly right.

Michelle Newman 25:33

So a bright spot, though, might be the spark he gets from Apollonia. Because she shows up at First Avenue and is instantly besotted with the kid like, instantly. It's like he has this cosmic pull on her. And so as is very typical of 80s movies, we get a musical montage to speed up the relationship. So this is the song, take me with you. Love that song, too. And it's a great choice. Again, like I already said, I mean, the songs were not placed randomly. So this is the song Take me with you. And it's one of the only songs that isn't a performance. Instead, it's the classic MTV style music video on a motorcycle, of course, because it's Prince. And this establishes that Prince and Apollonia are becoming romantically linked.

And it's really it's a Fonzie and kinky moment, right? Totally takes her for a motorcycle ride in the country. And they're driving and the wind is in her hair. And she's holding around his waist now understand, they've just met, but she's got her arms around his waist. And this is where we have the famous moment where Prince agrees to help Apollonia with her career, if I mean their relationship, this is all progressing very quickly. But that's

Kristin Nilsen 27:06

what it's for. Right? Right. Right. Right. To help her with a

Michelle Newman 27:09

career if she first purifies herself in the waters of Lake Minnetonka. Which non Minnesotans that is actually not Lake Minnetonka but we're gonna have a fun fact a little story on that

Kristin Nilsen 27:21

there's not even a lake people know.

Michelle Newman 27:24

That's like a little Yeah, that is not layman to talk about. Anyway, for the intents and purposes of this movie. Let's believe that it is Lake Minnetonka, she has to purify herself in the waters of Lake Minnetonka. So of course, I mean, naturally, she must strip and show us all her boobs because of course she isn't wearing a bra. You guys. Her boobs are beautiful. Let me just say it. I mean, but it's a totally gratuitous movie moment. Right? Well, my goodness, she can't jump in in this leather vest. And Didn't she have like a leather vest in my memory? Like a leather vest? Yeah. So you know, my goodness, that would shrink right up poor Apollonia. And so she has to take everything off. When we were watching it. I was like, Okay, but why isn't she wearing a bra? And then I was like, Oh, Michelle, because there's so many reasons. She wasn't wearing a bra. I mean, look at her boobs. They're perfect. She doesn't need to wear a bra one. She

Kristin Nilsen 28:11

doesn't need one. This is a movie. This is a

Michelle Newman 28:15

gratuitous boob moment for this movie. Yeah, we need to have one of those. So yeah, it was just kind of like now at age 53. I'm like, Oh, please, I roll. So then of course she gets out of the water and she's you know, dripping and freezing cold. But yes, then of course, he tells her then that's not like Minnetonka and haha. And

Kristin Nilsen 28:34

here's really where the story begins. Because we're getting our very first glimpse of the kids mistreatment of women. We all thought this was hilarious at the time. Funny joke, funny joke. But now we're understanding that this is the beginning of a different part of the story. This will be one of the primary criticisms of the movie, actually, that is misogynistic.

Carolyn Cochrane 28:55

Yeah, I totally can see that. Because that scene culminates with that Jackass of a move, where he's on his motorcycle, and he's telling her to get on. And then she goes to get on and he moves it up a little bit, and so much, and he does it again. And again. And again. And I sadly have been a victim of some behavior like that. And so i My heart ached for Apollonia because I know what that's like. It's so demeaning and humiliating. And I just, I felt so sad for her for having to experience that. So in the movie,

Kristin Nilsen 29:35

it's meant to be I mean, she's taking it like, silly, and I never thought it was no, I always hated them. It's that

Michelle Newman 29:44

that whole scene is it's really it's a form of abuse. I think. I mean, it's just bullying and emotional abuse.

Kristin Nilsen 29:51

Yeah, this is this is how he treats women. This is how he thinks of women. He's trying to get power over women, much as his father has On, and I think as a 16 year old as much as I loved Apollonia and I really, really did, I love those boots. My whole style is based on her really, I should add, I was not very successful at emulating her style. It's just trying because you're limping around your feet. It wasn't sexy, not sexy. But I also saw contrast between Apollonia and Wendy and Lisa Apollonia. Is being the person who, I don't know if I want to say succumbs that might be that might be a lightning rod of a word who succumbs to the person who is abusive. That's how I saw Apollonia as one of those people who was really open to this relationship with somebody who would treat her badly. And Wendy, Lisa being like, Fuck off, dude. They see his dismissal of them. He's very, like you said in earlier, Michelle, you called him bratty. He is very bratty with him. And he dismisses them. They call it out. They tell him he's a dick. They tell him what his flaws are. And you can see that they are on the verge of calling it quits with him.

Michelle Newman 31:03

Mm hmm. Well, you know, they're lesbians. They don't they don't fuck around with stuff like that. Need any of that drama? No,

Kristin Nilsen 31:12

no, I guess you might be on something I don't know. And this scene, the one was Take me with you was a real life abuse story, actually, because there is a really interesting factoid about that scene when she's jumping into the lake. So they started filming the movie in November of 1983. November in Minnesota, okay, not warm, the temperature had plunged down into the 20s. And she has to take off all of her clothes and jump into a lake. And the nurses on the set were like, no, she cannot jump into this lake, she will die of shock. And the director says, Well, you know what the studio tells me we have to have this in the can today. So he just insisted. I mean, let's talk about abuse, right, like completely ignoring the well being of your cast. And then somehow he convinces her to jump in the lake. And when she does, she immediately goes into shock. It becomes a true medical emergency. I don't I don't want to say that she almost died. I've read places that she almost died. But I can't verify the channels died. Needless to say, they could not finish the scene. So what they did was after the movie was had gone on too long, it was over budget, they're back in Los Angeles, they did manage to get a little bit of money to finish that scene in Los Angeles. And so you see Apollonia jumping into a lake in Minnesota. And when she's coming out of the lake, she's coming out of a lake in Los Angeles. And it

Michelle Newman 32:36

was just such a stupid scene to me. Like, I guess I get what it was supposed to accomplish in terms of the relationship. I just think it could have been done in other ways, especially when they realized after the first take like, oh, I don't think we can do this. But then we can the writers, you know, the the guy who wrote routes, I'm sure was like, Oh, I can I can rewrite that scene. No problem. Let's do a different type of purification. No, but we have to see your boobs. So we're gonna have to she's gonna have to undress somehow. I just think that I really do believe it was to see your boobs.

Kristin Nilsen 33:08

For sure. I totally agree with you. And I also think that because there's this Lake Minnetonka part of it, which is a very prominent, large, well known lake in the Twin Cities area. I feel like that was somebody's vision. Like, what is this a joke that Prince has pulled on other people? Has he pulled this stunt on people in real life? Because Paisley Park would be very near Lake Minnetonka.

Carolyn Cochrane 33:32

Yeah, that's true. I want to say something else about that scene. How on earth did she get that leather out those leather pants everything back on after

Kristin Nilsen 33:43

wet? Rain? Possible you it's impossible. Impossible. As much as I would have been gained to jump in a lake for some dude who's pushing me to do something stupid. I would have said no, based solely on the fact that how am I going to get these leather pants back? When I'm all

Michelle Newman 34:00

wet? There's no towel. There's no towel.

Carolyn Cochrane 34:03

I mean, have you ever been like dancing at a wedding or club and then gone to the bathroom and tried to pull your space up and you're all sweaty?

Unknown Speaker 34:11

It's possible.

Michelle Newman 34:14

Oh my god, that's so relatable. Well, in

Carolyn Cochrane 34:16

the meantime, more stay in Jerome start pursuing Apollonia as well. The owner of First Avenue has actually hinted to Morris that he wants to get rid of the of the revolution. And Morris suggest that they replace the revolution with a girl group. And he wants Apollonia to be the lead singer. So for Apollonia that would mean not only rejecting the kids help with her career, but also replacing him on stage. And Morris day is no better with his treatment of women. So the only way that he can relate to her or persuade her to be in his group is by seducing her with some champagne and a little sexy talk. And that plays out in a seat at First Avenue. She's wearing this outfit that kind of makes her look like she's actually shackled tomorrow. Stay there chains involved in,

Michelle Newman 35:04

like cuffs on the wrist aren't there and around her neck. I feel like yeah,

Kristin Nilsen 35:08

yes. Almost like, like dominatrix sort of Yeah. Right. Right. Although the opposite would be true, because it seems like she's shackled to by Morris day as if she belongs to him in some way. Right?

Carolyn Cochrane 35:20

Which again, is another way in that movie that they kind of told you part of the story without having to tell you part of the story. It's you kind of get that that's, that's what's going on there. So they're sitting at a table in full view of the kid. And he's performing on stage. And you can see that demon began to rise again. It's he's being overshadowed and losing to a rival.

Kristin Nilsen 35:45

And we don't actually think the audience we don't actually think that she's falling for Morris day, but it certainly looks like it from the stage where the kids stares her down and launches into the song, the beautiful ones.

It's a searing musical plea that culminates in him screaming, you want few? Or do you want me because I want which left me crying, actual tears, trying not to sob because I felt it. So purely. I felt his screaming please. So purely. And I cried this time to in the attic. I tried to hide it. But I couldn't have like sitting on the couch and like shaking. I'm shaking, because that also is very personal for me, too. Because I was in a situation at the time where I was. I don't even like to say it because it's embarrassing. But I was dating two people at the same time. And

Michelle Newman 36:57

there was some type of shout go back there. Somebody did you know what everyone go listen to them all? Because we're not remembering

Carolyn Cochrane 37:02

it. It's okay. Own it.

Kristin Nilsen 37:04

It's It is embarrassing. Oh, mostly, the only reason I was dating two people at the same time is because I was not very practiced in how to break up with people. I didn't know how to do it. And so I didn't like it. Just let it keep going until friends looked me in the eye during that song in Purple Rain. And so do you want him? Or do you want me because I want you. And I was like, I'm sorry, Prince. Sorry. And I was like he was talking to me. It was absolutely like he was talking to me, the teenager and me comes right to the surface. And I feel all of the pain of being rejected or of rejecting that is also painful. And that's what I was dealing with having to reject someone. This is one of the primal experiences of high school, if you think about it, we're in the business of falling in love in high school, whether it's in real life or from afar, it doesn't really matter. And then being rejected or having to reject someone else. This is the education of high school. And then our book club discussion right after we watched the movie, I shared a story about Lizzo. And her unforgettable once in a lifetime performance of the beautiful ones. Because what a lot of people don't know is that Lyza moved to Minneapolis because of prints. her music career started here in Prince's orbit, listen to this. So on the day that he died, Lizzo flew back to Minneapolis to join the crowd of 10,000 people that had spontaneously gathered on the streets in front of First Avenue. And she wanted to come back and be a part of the celebration. And the people on the stage had promising results coming Lyza was coming visit was coming. And they didn't have any more performance left. Everybody had done their prints trivial. And we're all standing there all 10,000 at once and Elizabeth was coming, and they will give us updates. She's on the tarmac. She's waiting for an Uber. She's in the Uber. She's coming. By the time Lizzo got there. She couldn't get to the stage. The crowd was so big and so dense. She couldn't get to the stage. And so they made an announcement. They said Liz those back there. She can't get to the stage, guys. It was like the parting of the Red Sea. And the people opened up and Lizzo came running up to the stage. I mean, it was like a city block. She had to go like a city block. She gets up on stage. She sings the beautiful ones. And I'm crying about a now just thinking about it. She slayed that song. She destroyed me. She destroyed me. And it was so worth waiting there in that crowd for his own arrive. She's really she asked her tribute you guys was so real. It was so heartfelt. It was so full of despair. She mirrored exactly what we were feeling in the crowd. out. And Carolyn actually found a YouTube clip of this performance. So here's Lizzo seeing the beautiful ones on the data from

Unknown Speaker 40:15

God

Carolyn Cochrane 40:33

and I'll also include a link in our show notes to the actual clip on YouTube so you can see her performing and the crowd that that's there. It's pretty amazing. The beautiful ones also crushes Apollonia. She cries during the performance and assures him that she wants not Morris, it was never Morris, but short live because when she shares with him that she's going to join Morris's girl group, that kid lashes out. He assaults Apollonia just like his father, again, we see that demon rise in prints that jealousy and rage that takes over. And the only way he knows how to deal with those feelings is through violence, just like his father, and Apollonia obviously runs away.

Michelle Newman 41:18

Yeah, this leads to the all is lost moment. He's lost his girl his spot at First Avenue is in jeopardy. Wendy and Lisa are on the verge of quitting the band because he won't listen to their music. And we have another musical montage. What would it be without another musical montage? But this is this montage is set to what would become a very historic song

there's no under estimating the impact the music video to When Doves Cry would have on the success of this movie. It's iconic. You Yeah. Yeah, it was there's so much imagery with that, too.

Kristin Nilsen 42:10

Yeah, there's a lot of imagery. He's on his motorcycle, he's going through the he's riding through the country. And you can just feel that there's, there's this turmoil going on. And it's the song was released. I think you looked this up. During our discussion. Carolyn was released a month before the movie. So this was our first song before the movie was released. It's it's sort of leading us down this path of what is to come? Well,

Michelle Newman 42:36

and again, it's a really good example of the song and the lyrics most especially driving the story forward.

Kristin Nilsen 42:43

Yeah, because it's really one of the lowest moments of the film. And if all of what you describe happens, Michelle, the he lost his girl, he is going to lose his balance. And if all of that happens, he will be his father have failed musician who plays only at home and takes his frustration out on his wife. So the lyrics of When Doves Cry, which we didn't really understand when we were singing it, I guess speaking for myself. It's about the cycle of domestic violence. And the video shows him literally trying to decide which road to go down. He has to choose a path. So now when you hear these lyrics, it means so much more. How can you just leave me standing alone In a world? That's so cool? Maybe I'm just too, too demanding. Maybe I'm just like my father too bold. Maybe you're just like my mother. She's never satisfied. Why do we scream at each other? This is what it sounds like When Doves Cry

Unknown Speaker 43:47

scream at each other. Like

Kristin Nilsen 43:56

and that's when Carolyn asked. Is he the dove and you just blew my mind?

Carolyn Cochrane 44:01

Well, yeah, I mean, I could just feel that emotion in that song and those lyrics. I'm thinking that's exactly who he is. And it's that little boy again, it's that little boy just crying and and just just crying. The lyrics are just

Michelle Newman 44:21

okay, I'll pick you up here. I'll pick you up. The lyrics are so beautiful, though. Like, as a 16 year old I loved singing along to this song because this is a great sing along because let's remember if you listen to episode, one of this purple rain discussion, I didn't see the movie. Then in 1984 Carolyn or I, we didn't see the movie. So I'm just singing along to this song. These lyrics don't mean anything to me, really, because I'm not being able to place them in the context of the movie. Now. Since I've seen this movie, the song just just gets me in the gut. It's now beautiful and tragic and sad. And I mean In what a songwriter

Kristin Nilsen 45:01

When Doves Cry, he's the dove he's crying. He it's just it means so much more now. So When Doves Cry was something that we hadn't actually heard before this style of song, we're like, what is this? One of the reasons that it was so unusual is because there wasn't a baseline. And Warner Brothers, the music studio is like when you're gonna finish that song, dude. And Prince was like, It is finished now like, No, it's not, it's not done. This doesn't sound like a song. There's no baseline. And he kept insisting it's done. And they said, You can't release a song with no baseline. He's like I just did. And guess what, it's a huge hit. We couldn't actually perceive that there was no baseline. We didn't know why it was different. And we were just kind of drawn to it like moths to a flame. Right?

Carolyn Cochrane 45:44

And I'm embarrassed to say I don't think I know now if when I listened to it, I wouldn't baseline that's okay,

Kristin Nilsen 45:50

Carolyn, because I wouldn't either. Unless somebody told me once somebody told me then I can be like, oh god, there's your right. There's no bass, but I couldn't pick that out by myself.

Carolyn Cochrane 46:13

Okay, so now in the movie, the kid returns from his come to Jesus motorcycle ride, and he finds his mother on the front steps of their house. She's bruised and beaten. And he enters his home to confront his father. That kid finds him in the basement smoking a cigarette and playing the piano. It's a haunting, melancholy melody that he's playing. And when he asks his son, if he has a girlfriend, the kid says, Yes. And his father says, don't ever get married. Now, I want to say unlike the first time in the movie, when the kid walks in on his father beating his mother, and I said that I saw kind of as a child in that scene, but this scene, I kind of see a little bit of a twist, I see the kid more as an adult, like he has this realization in that moment, something that maybe it doesn't have to be the same way for him that it was for his father. Maybe he can even redeem his father's tortured soul by being the musician that his father could never be. Oh, my God, you know, I like to look at the glass half full sometimes.

Kristin Nilsen 47:14

Well, things are very nuanced number. Things are not black and white. They just aren't right. And I think I think you could be on to something Carolyn, right. He's got to find. We all know that our fathers are important in our lives, whether they were good people or bad people, we want their approval, no matter what. And I think he's in that same position. That is just the reality of the way families work, and the way people develop.

Michelle Newman 47:42

And that's just we just another good reason why you are listening. Should if you liked this movie in 1984, it's, it's worth a rewatch, because this is yet something else that had I seen this movie at age 15. And he walks in and the dad says, don't ever get married, I would have been like, oh, yeah, cuz you know, you obviously don't like your wife. So you don't want to be married. There's so much more to it than that, that we see now as adults.

Kristin Nilsen 48:09

And what happens next is connected to that moment in a way that I that went way over my head when I was 16. But when you know it, when you know what this is, the small detail that I will reveal, the heaviness you feel is almost too much to bear. The next scene is his next gig at First Avenue. And the song he opens with is computer blue, which is a sleeper hit on the album that doesn't get the attention that it deserves. It's a really good song. He's lashing out in this song. It's like he's rebelling against someone. Is it his father? Is it as bad as at the owner of First Avenue? I don't know. He's clearly really, really angry. Because during the song when he gets on her knees in front of Prince, presumably at his instruction in this sort of pseudo fellatio type improvisation. It's super uncomfortable. And the audience doesn't like it. The owner of First Avenue is shaking his head. And you have to wonder, Is he trying to get fired? Like before? Billy can fire him? Is he trying to say fuck you Billy, you can't fire me. I'm leaving. Maybe

Michelle Newman 49:11

I think it's more like you know how sometimes you want to be shocking just to be shocking. I think he's got so many like I said and in the first part of this last week, I that when I was watching it I kept saying he has so many feelings. He has so many feelings especially he's come off of this you know, come to Jesus motorcycle, right? He's seen what you come home seen his mother beat up again. There's so much bubbling and brewing. I feel like he just almost is I'm just going to like act out and be shocking to be shocking. I saw it as Prince. Not saying like, Oh, just try to fire me but just like, Yeah, I'm going to just show you all you know, I'm going to be shocking. And I'm going to just push I'm going to push the envelope and I'm gonna just keep pushing it because I don't know how to control all these feelings. So I'm just going to let them all just go crazy. Basically, all the

Kristin Nilsen 49:56

teachers in the audience right now we're going Yes, Michelle? Yes. Big Because you do you see this in classrooms all the time, the kid that just keeps acting out. And here's the little nugget that I'm going to reveal that that is connected to the scene. This is the heartbreaking part when he gets to the bridge of the song is very noticeable because the song changes considerably. If you listen carefully, the bridge of computer blue is the song that his dad was playing on the piano when Prince went to confront him about his mom's most recent fever.

Did you guys notice that?

Carolyn Cochrane 51:05

I remember thinking that at the time and I wasn't 100%? Sure. But for me, it makes total sense now. To me, that's how Prince could maybe understand his father a little more even like through his father's music. Could this scene be like some kind of therapy for the kid?

Kristin Nilsen 51:23

Yeah. Uh huh. And it's a really beautiful melody. It's really quite haunting. I think you can count on one hand how many people picked up on that? I think I only picked up on it. As a 54 year old I for sure didn't pick up on it at 16 connecting this little thing that his dad was playing on the piano and then the bridge of this next song that's coming. It's quite haunting. And to add to that heartbreak, that bridge was written in real life by Prince's actual father, the songwriting credits, say Prince Rogers Nelson, and John L. Nelson.

Michelle Newman 51:58

Wow. And we are we we talked last week about if this was autobiographical or not, do we know what the relationship with him between him and his father was actually like?

Kristin Nilsen 52:11

So this is all of this is a little bit hazy. There's not tons that is revealed. And I feel like there are two stories that happened. On the one hand, I feel like they were quasi estranged. And on the other hand, it appears that when his father died, which was about 20 years ago, they said he died in Chanhassen. Which is where the town where Paisley Park is. Does that mean his father was living with him at Paisley Park? I mean, at the very least, it means that Prince purchased a home for his father in Chanhassen to be near him. There's no reason just to put it out. There's no reason for people to move from North Minneapolis to Chanhassen. Unless you're Prince, right? There's just no reason and so you want a yard think? Yeah, there are lots of there are lots of suburbs. Right? Yarra. Why Chanhassen.

Carolyn Cochrane 53:01

I get a feeling to and maybe again, this is the glass half full, but in real life having that the musical credit with Prince Rogers Nelson and John L. Nelson. Has, did his father ever have his name on any other piece of music that was written? Like I think back to the scene in the movie where Prince opens up I think it's a chest or a box and all of that music pours out, which you know, is music that his father wrote, and you think it's probably never seen the light of day, it's probably been played in that basement the whole time. So could this not be similar to what Prince's dad experienced? And could this not be Prince's gift to his father? Like, you have a song credit like, composer? Yeah, is this maybe not forgiveness of some sorts? Same with purchasing the home near me? Is this not a way for even prince to find peace within? So yes enough to be the kind of anymore l

Kristin Nilsen 54:00

elevating his father supporting his father. I know he has several co writing credits on print songs. I don't know if he has co write if he has writing credits for other songs. I don't know. I have no idea. And

Carolyn Cochrane 54:14

what better way to say looked at I'm a success. And you can kind of ride my coattails because listen, like you said before Kristen, the relationship between a father and a son is so foundational, it truly I think dictates the way a man will walk through this world. They want their father's approval more than anything. I think we see that play out with maybe Donald Trump and I don't know if you watch the session but Logan Roy is this awful father who shows no emotion just abusive to his children and all you can see is Kendall and Roman the two sons the whole show just trying that's all they're doing. attention

Kristin Nilsen 54:52

from their father they want a relationship with their father. That's what I don't want a good person or a bad person. Right?

Carolyn Cochrane 54:59

I don't doesn't matter. How evil are terrible. The father? Yeah, I almost think it's wired into the male species.

Kristin Nilsen 55:04

I agree. I totally agree with you.

Michelle Newman 55:07

So when computer blue is over, Morris day walks into First Avenue with Apollonia. And when Prince sees them together, like I said before that kind of pushing the envelope, the thrashing out he was doing on stage it amplifies and it really just turns into this lash out at what he's seeing he launches into darling Nikki.

Unknown Speaker 55:29

New girl named Nikki, I guess you could say she was a six. Man Oh, hotel lobby massive bed magazine.

Michelle Newman 55:43

song that you guys was so shocking to us in 1984 because she was a sex been masturbating with a magazine. She grinds she has devices. Damn, that's a great song. Oh. It'll be laying Damn. Yeah. Damn, that is a great song. And so fun to

Kristin Nilsen 56:05

sing that song, man. I'm sure I had never heard the word masturbate out loud before darling Nikki. And we were just tickled. Oh, excuse the pun. Well,

Michelle Newman 56:15

it's not just that part of the mean, we were looking up the lyrics to that song. And then we weren't going opening our dictionaries. We couldn't. We weren't going to the card catalogs.

Kristin Nilsen 56:30

This is the song by the way that inspired Tipper Gore and a whole bunch of Washington, DC Karen's to launch the PMRC the parents music Resource Center. This was the organization that wanted the government to impose a rating system on music, and they had a whole bunch I'm sure you remember this. They had a whole bunch of televised congressional hearings about it. Darling Nikki is the reason for the PMRC because Tipper Gore heard darling Nikki coming out of her daughter's bedroom and she was like, wha what is happening? And she immediately called all of her friends. She's like, let's kick pretzels I asked. And then John Denver and Dee Snider from Twisted Sister showed up to testify and shamed them all by explaining the subjective nature of art. Because basically, if you don't like darling Nikki, you don't have to listen to darling Ricky, but you should definitely listen to Darlene Nikki before deciding that you don't like darling Nikki,

Michelle Newman 57:22

it's worth it. That's the lesson with everything. If you don't like something, you don't have to watch it, do it, listen to it, whatever. But you shouldn't tell other people that they cannot the end, right?

Carolyn Cochrane 57:35

And like you said, just now, Kristen, but maybe you need to listen to this thing before you make the decision that you're not going to listen to it. You know, like, don't just make this blanket statement based on the title or, you know,

Kristin Nilsen 57:51

picture it if it were a single word masturbate. I mean, it's really based on the word masturbate, and maybe consume it in its context. So that it's just like what we're talking about you we're going to talk a lot about darling Nikki and what happened in that context. And then when Tipper Gore understands that she's like, dang, that's a powerful song. Daughter, would you like to talk about the power of this moment? And yeah, so so she can't listen to it. I'm

Michelle Newman 58:15

gonna guess Tipper Gore didn't would not know say that.

Kristin Nilsen 58:20

That's a very 2022 thing to do. So

Carolyn Cochrane 58:21

let's talk about the song in the movie. Okay. It is actually a dig at Apollonia. Essentially, when the kid is singing it, he's slut shaming her. And it's that age old trope you guys that when a guy feels rejected by a woman? He's just gonna accuse her of being sweaty. Yeah, really,

Michelle Newman 58:39

it's a moment of cruelty. He's basically accusing Apollonia of whoring herself out whether metaphorically or literally, to Morris day, you know, signing on the dotted line to get whatever she wants, which is to be famous, and she knows that. And with the song and him thrashing, so painful and almost out of control. She can't take it and she has she starts to cry. And she runs out of First Avenue.

Kristin Nilsen 59:03

She knows it's about her. He she knows that he's accusing her. Oh, yeah. So initially as a 16 year old Apollonius, crying and running out and I'm like, what? Why is she mad? What was happening? I did not fully comprehend how the performance was telling the story. This is kind of my theme for the whole episode. I didn't understand that he was being cruel to her in that moment. And part of that could be that I've been singing it wrong. All of these years. I lit I just now looked up the lyrics on paper to darling Nikki, I only knew it from listening to it. Michelle, you just said the correct words. But I've been seeing thank you for a funky time. Call me up whenever you want to cry. And then he wails about crying on and on about crying like Nikki is his therapist or something. Talking about crying. The correct words are call me up whenever you want to grind. Yeah. Which is what you just said. I'm just learning that now.

Michelle Newman 1:00:01

Right? And he's not because he's not saying call me up whenever you want to make

Unknown Speaker 1:00:07

a phone call.

Kristin Nilsen 1:00:15

So yes, this is clearly about slut shaming. And I did not know that as a 16 year old.

Carolyn Cochrane 1:00:21

Well, after she hears the song and runs out of the club, he runs off stage and he just starts trashing his dressing room, when you kind of felt it was building up to this. I want to say, kid, you need to learn how to regulate your emotions. That's what I'm learning in my therapy with my therapist. He isn't really having

Michelle Newman 1:00:39

let's get your toolbox, the kid toolbox out, and let's see what tools we can use to fix this.

Carolyn Cochrane 1:00:45

Well just think that me his music is the place where he is unleashing this, these emotions. So there was that disgusting pretend blow job during Computer blew the musical moment where he's actually putting his abusive father's melody out into the world. And the cruelty he just dumped on the woman he supposedly loves. And the owner of First Avenue stops in the doorway and says, is the kid trying to become his father? Is he thinking that there's no hope for him, and then he's going to turn out just like his father. While not physical abuse, that performance and song was certainly emotional abuse in my opinion, and that can be a lot more sometimes. And

Kristin Nilsen 1:01:22

when the owner first avenues says, I remember when we were sitting on the couch, and the owner looks at him and says, like, Father, like, son, and we all were like, oh,

Carolyn Cochrane 1:01:31

yeah, exactly.

Kristin Nilsen 1:01:35

Low. Yeah, that was a low blow.

Michelle Newman 1:01:38

Yeah. And so not surprisingly, here's where I say the most disturbing part of the movie, but certainly one of the most disturbing parts of the movie comes in the next night after Apollonia has performance with her new girl group Apollonia six.

I feel like I need to pose when I say she finds herself alone in an alley with Morris day who he's all you know, resolved strutting like a chicken. He's all proud of you know, this new girl group he put together and he's drunk and because he doesn't know how to relate to her except sexually. He takes her drunkenness as concert as consent to have sex with her which she does not want. And you think everything is going to be okay, because the kid zooms in on his motorcycle and like the fog and the kind of it's you know, there's

Kristin Nilsen 1:02:34

always like, I'm sure it's personal fog.

Michelle Newman 1:02:36

Raining, isn't it? Kind of it's that well, you know, it's raining sometimes. Like when he's dragging on the motorcycle, it's raining. But when we cut to Apollonia and Morris day standing there, no rain. No Princess coming round rain, no rain, right? Yeah. That's what happens in Minneapolis. You guys though it actually does. Sometimes it rains on one block and not another. But in this case, it was pretty funny. Anyway, that I gotta go back to my series, Mr. But, but he zooms in on his motorcycle, and he rescues her. So you think yeah, everything's gonna be okay. Although you're kind of remembering? Well, they don't, they haven't left the relationship on a really good note. They zoom away on the motorcycle. And then he of course not knowing what to do with all of these feelings. He then starts putting the moves on her, and he's the one that's kind of forcing himself upon her. And of course, she again is saying no, no, no. And, you know, he wants his emotions now are just bubbling up and brewing to the surface. And there are so many, and they're so dangerous. And he wants to hit her he wants to do he wants to be abusive, and she's rejected him. Yeah. And she knows it and she flees.

Kristin Nilsen 1:03:43

This is the part of the move. Like, Michelle just did the soft sell on this, because I think it's difficult to talk about to talk about it. This is the part of the movie where we really lose Michelle, because it's really quite egregious what he does, and it's scary. He's pulling his arm back with a fist, and he's gonna hit her in the face. And she's cowering. She's cowering. And we're all like, Oh, no. And she was like, I'm out. I'm out like the move well over for that.

Michelle Newman 1:04:09

Yes. And no, I mean, yes. I just and we're gonna get to a good discussion of this in a minute where I definitely have been able to come around. But no, in the moment of me watching it, you're right, I check out I check out I'm like you said earlier, you know, things aren't black and white and these types of relationships. And I totally agree with you. And I understand that. But all I'm seeing in this moment is black and white, black and white. And I'm seeing coming in her face. I'm seeing no, don't I'm not going to have compassion for the kid. And I don't I'm not I'm going to have a really hard time liking him. I don't like him in this moment. And then I haven't liked him really a lot up until then I'll be quite honest with you.

Kristin Nilsen 1:04:47

So yeah. And it was also it's scary, and it's egregious, but it's also extremely nuanced. And Carolyn felt really strongly that this moment was pivotal, that something was changing. So she was seeing it in a different way she was seeing something else happening? Yeah, I

Carolyn Cochrane 1:05:02

totally could feel in this scene that he was trying to stop. And we've got that scene, His arm was pulled back, like you guys were saying. And I just feel like in his head, it was I'm at this crossroads, I can punch her and be just like my father's always been. Or I can go a different way. It's that demon is trying to talk to him and say, this is the way to go. And he is fighting with all of his might, to not go that way. So I wanted our listeners to hear that part of our conversation in your attic. Because really, it was pretty important, both as a commentary on the film, but also a commentary about abuse. So here we are, in Kristen's attic discussing this really disturbing scene. Well, he had that moment with her where he could have kept, you know, she was on the ground and he could have he stopped himself.

Michelle Newman 1:05:52

Once, you know, I

Carolyn Cochrane 1:05:53

know. But I feel like it was kind of a lightbulb moment at that point that something happened at that moment. And then I think something happened when he's at the hospital bedside with his mom. And I think he was open to getting help.

Kristin Nilsen 1:06:12

Is that moment you're talking about, he's seen in his face where he wants family to hit her and his face looks like he's in pain. Now he's angry, like he's in pain after him for the

Michelle Newman 1:06:21

first time. Yeah.

Carolyn Cochrane 1:06:23

Yeah. But I think, you know, some people would have kept going, and I think they're, this is how I like kids, you know, I'm gonna say, the glasses, at least he had a moment of realization that there's maybe another there's another choice. I don't have to keep doing this. And he didn't do it and look really hard not to do it, too. And then, you know, go from there not make no no,

Michelle Newman 1:06:47

I understand that he had a he had a look like that the first time he had her to he was he was a little bit remorseful when she went running out, you know, of

Carolyn Cochrane 1:06:54

the Yeah, but here, he she was on the ground he was on top of her could have, I mean, she was there was a little different.

Kristin Nilsen 1:07:01

And that's on purpose, right? All of that is all that is the director or prints or whomever is making this movie. They're making those artistic choices to show him struggling with what he's doing. That he knows the whole time. He's not like, I can hit women, because my dad does. He knows that this is a dark, dark path to go down. But he's fighting it within his soul. And God, these demons that he's fighting, and when it is remorseful. Every time he does it, I know that there's there is a trope that goes along with I'm sorry, I'll never do it again. And that is the story of domestic violence. That's why we have a cycle of domestic violence because nobody is just mean and wants to hit people. There's a demon inside that they're really working hard to work against. And so the question is, Is he strong enough? Or does he have the fuel to be able to overcome the cycle of violence that's been taught to him? And it's in that moment when she's when she's on the ground? That he's struggling to grab the lights? He's reaching for the light, take me out of here. I don't want to be this person. How am I going to do this? The one of the biggest criticisms of the movie is the misogyny in the movie, including that scene where Morris day throws the woman in the dumpster, the studio is like that can't that can't stay, you have to take that out was weird. And it tested really well with audiences. And so they left it in. I know exactly you got to say about that. Right. And when one critic said, the film's anti woman attitude undercut some of the most viscerally moving rock concert footage ever presented in a motion picture, but we have to remember that this might be consists story. And so the director was actually trying to tell the story of somebody trying to get out of that story. Essentially, I think as a 16 year old, I took it as instructive. From the woman's point of view, especially the parts featuring Wendy and Lisa, because he was so dismissive of them, he's not abusive to them in the way he is to Apollonian. But he is completely and utterly dismissive of them and their creativity. But they fight back, they get angry. And that's where I took my instruction. Don't let people do that to you, or more darkly. Men will do this to you, is what I learned. But you don't have to be quiet about it. And you can threaten to leave. Yeah, so essentially, essentially, in that moment, Carolyn, you're seeing him? I can't even speak it out loud. I can't. How do we how do we sum that up? How do we come back for that? Well,

Carolyn Cochrane 1:09:33

something that came to my popped in my head after I was listening to our discussion there was that here's where I see a difference. We kind of compared him being remorseful after the first experience and that that's a abusers tactic a lot is do the action and then say you're sorry. But what was different in this moment where he's on top of her is he is actually At that moment before he smacks or hits or whatever he's thinking, so it's different than being sorry for it before. It's like, okay, I'm at this crossroads. I don't have to do this thing that I eventually could apologize for. So I think it's different in that way that's actually worse, right? It's not after the fact Oh, I shouldn't have done that. This is before the fact knowing I shouldn't do this. And I don't think abusers have that notion. They just do the action. And then they're sorry if

Michelle Newman 1:10:34

that if you watch it, I just rewatched the scene where he does it. And you know, he's there kissing, he's, he's wanting, you know, to go more, she stops him, he slaps her, she slaps him back. He stops for a minute. But then after he stops for a minute and looks at her, he takes both of his hands and he puts him straight on her face and he shoves her to the ground and she falls and hits her head on, you know, hits her head, and then he jumps on top of her. He takes his hand he reaches it up, and then he stops. So he does think but after he thinks he then takes her and he pushes her and I don't know, I just felt like it was all just out of control. And I don't know that ice necessarily saw in a remorse. It's

Kristin Nilsen 1:11:14

horrible. It's really horrible. And this is more for the people who saw it in 1984. Did we know how horrible it was in 1984? I don't think we did. Like it was very difficult to watch sitting in my attic. I'm not sure we were disturbed by it. But did we fully understand what that represented? And I don't I don't think that we really did. So after that. Apollonia flees naturally, we assume for good. And when the kid returns home, something is really wrong. The house is all dark. And you can see his father standing in the dark. He's sort of shrouded in dark. And he's holding a handgun. And when the kid flips the light switch. The audience here is a gunshot. Yeah. Michelle's face just cringed. It's shocking. And here's where the filmmaking really rises to the occasion. There is no dialogue. It's just ambient sounds of sirens, people shouting the sounds of footsteps up and down the stairs, the sound of his mother crying, the sound of the paramedics scrambling to help his father on the floor loading amount of stretcher while he rides in pain. And then you see Prince sitting on the couch, his hands in his lap. He's surrounded by police who are asking him questions. And he looks so small and so vulnerable. His eyes are full of tears. His face is so bewildered. And you don't hear a single word, but it feels excruciating.

Michelle Newman 1:12:41

So where are we get the citizen? The Citizen Kane aspect of it. I think, you know, it's moments like these in the filmmaking where the critics are saying, these were some really good choices. Yeah,

Kristin Nilsen 1:12:51

because it hurts to watch that really hurts. And after the police leave, there's still no dialogue. He starts having flashbacks of the gunshot, have his father's abuse, his father yelling, he covers his ears, he cries and your what you're seeing is trauma on film, you're seeing him having a panic attack, essentially, his eyes flashed to a rope on the floor. And for a split second, just a hair of a second. There's a likeness of Prince hanging from the rafters. It's horrible. It's just horrible. And he picks up a golf club and he starts trashing the house violently.

Michelle Newman 1:13:32

Yeah. And as he rages, he flips open the trunk. And this is the part that comes in that Carolyn talked about just a few minutes ago, he starts flinging the contents of the truck around the room, and we can see that it's sheet music, it's hundreds and hundreds of pages of sheet music are flying around the room. And it takes him a moment to see what it is because at the top of each page, it says Francis L. And these are his father's compositions. And that moment makes it clear how prolific he was how painful it must have been for his father to be that musical and have no outlet. No audience have no appreciation for the art that you've created.

Kristin Nilsen 1:14:14

Okay, so why Francis L. This is why Francis out. Princess dad's name was John L. Nelson. So when we spoke earlier about these comparisons between the finding the sheet music and how that might have related to his dad. We can't underestimate that connection there. We can assume that it said John L at the top of his father's compositions. And as the kid looks at the sheet music, we hear the melody of the notes that he's reading on the pages and a tear is coming down his face. It's It's so hard.

Carolyn Cochrane 1:14:48

It is and you wonder if in that moment, he saw his dad differently, you know, and he imagined himself what if I didn't have an outlet for that? I have music in me and this art in me. So I think that's a real pivotal moment in that relationship between the father and son. So then Prince collects himself and he goes into his room. And then he sees the tape that Wendy and Lisa had given them and they wanted him to listen to and he was like, blew him off. Like he wasn't gonna listen to it. So now he pops it in into the cassette player, and we hear what is now a very familiar riff. It's the opening of the song, Purple Rain, he rewinds it, plays it again, scribble some notes, rewind, plays, again, scribble some more notes. He's

Kristin Nilsen 1:15:39

going from that moment of recognizing his father's compositions. And he's going into his room to compose.

Michelle Newman 1:16:02

Yeah, because he still has to perform. Yeah,

Kristin Nilsen 1:16:04

yeah. Because he's still,

Michelle Newman 1:16:05

I mean, the show must go on, right, and all that. So back, we go to First Avenue and the revolution is waiting to go on stage. The time has just finished, they're set with the bird and jungle love. Oh, my God, you guys, sidenote, those are such fun songs. Right. And as Morrison Jerome passed the revolution backstage, Morris looks at the kid and says mockingly How's the family? And it's just another shocking moment of cruelty. There's so much cruelty and this movie, there

Carolyn Cochrane 1:16:34

is makes you feel so sad for prints and what he had to deal with. But a moment that doesn't go unnoticed. Because as the time rounds the corner, we see more stay, stop and collect himself. Like there's this bit of remorse. It's a great example of nuance and direction in this movie that's really full of non actors. But we got that emotion out of him just with that little scene. Yeah, he

Kristin Nilsen 1:16:59

doesn't say, Oh, dang, I wish I hadn't said that right thing. He just waits for his band members to pass so that he can be alone. And then he sort of puts his face in his hands like, I can't believe I said that. That moment of cruelty by Morris day also makes me wonder, what kind of cruelty did Prince endure in his life for that to make it into the movie? Right? Why else is that there? If not somebody being so cutting to him. So after that moment of cruelty for Maurice de the revolution takes the stage. It's very quiet, the crowd is silent, and you get the feeling that they know about his father, and they're waiting to see what he'll do they know that some sort of tragedy has befallen him. It feels very expectant. And the kid announces he goes to the mic. And he says that he'll be playing a song written by Wendy and Lisa, which he dedicates to his father. And Wendy and Lisa look at each other in disbelief. And that song, of course, is Purple Rain, I never meant to call you

Unknown Speaker 1:18:09

never made the call.

Kristin Nilsen 1:18:29

Right, hello. So Purple Rain is really where we begin to see that the kid has chosen a path to overcome his demons. This is the choice he's making. He's signaling to the world, and to Wendy and Lisa and to Apollonia that he's trying to break the cycle of violence and mistreatment. And he's going to do that by letting Wendy and Lisa shine, instead of insisting that he is the only one who matters, which was his father's Demond. Right. So Purple Rain is often interpreted as an apology to Wendy and Lisa, an apology to Apollonia. And more generally, really, as a celebration of women, some even going so far as to say that Purple Rain is a metaphor for the menstrual cycle. Seriously, you guys and that's not like an urban myth or anything that comes from legitimate academic sources. I'm having a little trouble seeing that. But there you go. Knowing I know about

Carolyn Cochrane 1:19:25

Prince, I could totally see that that might indeed be the case. Just the way his mind. His mind works. And I wish

Michelle Newman 1:19:33

I would have known that back when I was still getting a period because I would have always called it my purple rain.

Kristin Nilsen 1:19:40

Purple Rain is here today.

Michelle Newman 1:19:41

I would have just started singing it. Yeah. Or

Carolyn Cochrane 1:19:44

just playing really loud. The whole house No, oh,

Kristin Nilsen 1:19:47

yeah. Your husband comes across the bed. You're like her?

Michelle Newman 1:19:52

Three years old. Yeah. Just comes home from work and it's just blaring in the house.

Carolyn Cochrane 1:19:57

Well, that song also um affected Apollonia. And you can just tell by her face that she is also receiving it as an apology. And she believes that he is indeed probably capable of change and that he's coming clean.

Kristin Nilsen 1:20:11

Rain, think about it, rain is cleansing. It's a metaphor for a new start. And one of the most redemptive moments of the movie. It's really one of my favorite moments of the movie is during the guitar solo.

For instance, just shredding it right, and he walks over to windy and he leans over and he kisses her on the cheek, and the look on her face. It's like, she's gonna cry. It's a good moment of acting for her. It's really I mean, it, it makes my heart hurt.

Michelle Newman 1:20:50

What was probably genuine, it probably wasn't acting.

Carolyn Cochrane 1:20:54

Right. And I feel like his only male role model has been his father who's always been a dick to women. I mean, that's what he witnessed. And that's been his only way of kind of walking through this world. The old prince would not have kissed her on the cheek, let alone use their music or anything like that. But I feel like he can finally kind of stand up straight and be like, Yeah, I can show that kind of emotion. And as you said, it's completely asexual. When previously, everything else that he had done was, let's face it, just him breathing is overtly sexual, in my opinion. And then here's this moment, it's gentle, and you can tell it's just out of pure love, and

Kristin Nilsen 1:21:36

respect. He's like paying respect for that song. He's saying, This is good. You guys are good. And Michelle, at one point, during our discussion, you made a comment that we kind of glossed over, but I think it needs a lot more attention. During this discussion of choosing a different path than the one you were taught. You made a comparison to the John Travolta character in Saturday Night Fever. This is not the first time Saturday Night Fever is coming up. And it wasn't until after our discussion where I was like, oh my god, it's the same story. It's the same story.

Carolyn Cochrane 1:22:07

Yeah, yes.

Michelle Newman 1:22:09

listeners. Yeah, you can hear our discussion about Saturday Night Fever. It was episode 52, which is a movie we also picked apart bit by bit and came away with a whole new understanding. But essentially, we have a main character here who has a choice to make. Am I going to do what I've been taught to do my whole life, which is treat women like shit, basically? Or am I going to break with my past and see women as whole human beings deserving of my love and respect? Yeah.

Kristin Nilsen 1:22:38

And now you can have not drawn like, is Purple Rain, how deep is your love? Because how deep is your love is the moment where John Travolta is like, I can't do this anymore. I can't, I can't be with these numbnuts, who are just trashing women all the time, I have to come clean, I have to come clean, cleanse yourself

Michelle Newman 1:22:57

cleanse. It's also it's also a good you know, both movies, you know, have such a flawed character, that then upon closer or viewing it at least through an adult lens, you can maybe start to see their flaws as having maybe almost having a reason or an explanation. And this happened with Timmy, this exact same thing happened to me with Saturday Night Fever to where I can start to think on these characters and think, Okay, I was, you know, it was a very trigger reaction, when I was watching both of these movies, I don't like this character, I don't like whatever. And then it's, you know, kind of starting to think about it similar and start to see the story they were trying to tell that you start to you kind of start to see that, you know, there was some growth,

Kristin Nilsen 1:23:45

at least. And he's like, does that mean that you would recommend that your daughter date this person? No, no, it doesn't. But it does mean that you recognize that this person has a path to become a better person, and you want to allow that to happen.

Michelle Newman 1:23:59

And so that is one reason to why a lot of these critics, you know, remember it was Jean Cisco Saturday Night Fever as Jean Cisco's favorite movie ever. And I was like, what? Like, what? And you know, we just read about that there's people that compare this movie to Citizen Kane. So it's like, how are these? How are these really, you know, scollard these really, these critics who know movies, how, you know, I'm kind of going, how are they seeing this and, and they're very similar, I think upon further reflection.

Kristin Nilsen 1:24:27

So when Purple Rain ends, Prince runs off stage, and he has a breakdown. And this kind of signals to us that this is just the beginning of his journey, because that was a very difficult thing for him to do to, to showcase somebody else's music to show respect to Wendy and Lisa. change does not happen overnight. It's not like okay, I've washed my hands clean, and now I'm a new person. That was really a difficult thing for him to do. And he's running and he's crying and he's pacing and then he hears the applause. He hears the cheering of the crowd. People are going crazy for Purple Rain, this this composition that belongs to Wendy and Lisa but it's performed by him. It's infused with the spirit of the kid, even the main owner of the club who said he was just like his father has a tear running down his face. And thus begins his resurrection. He sees that if he can let go of his demons, he will be rewarded with a transcendent experience. So he runs back out on stage and the celebration begins.

Michelle Newman 1:25:39

I would die for you is what the kid's father says to his mom after one of his beatings. This was his excuse for beating her. It's the classic trope of domestic abuse. And in the movie, the song it cuts back and forth between concert footage and scenes of Prince visiting his father in the hospital. He's comforting as mother cleaning up the destruction he caused at the house. And it's just it's it's a cleansing. It's a mess. It's it's it's it's a metaphor, but it's also very literal, very literal, very using.

Kristin Nilsen 1:26:09

The purple rain continues and he's rising from the cleansing. I mean, just we never would have picked up on that he's cleaning up the house that he trashed. There's so much to be said about what that means that he's cleaning up the house that he trashed. Let's just we're all gonna have growth right there. Yeah,

Michelle Newman 1:26:25

we're all gonna write just FYI, we're writing dissertations on rain after this. We've all become we're getting our doctorate and we're going to

Kristin Nilsen 1:26:37

I would die for you here is where the conversation in my advocate got really interesting. Because this song is so full of meaning chock full of meaning. It's not just a fun song to dance to. And we were figuring this out as we talked about it. First of all, this song is his first step and forgiving his father for his sins, because he has to have some forgiveness for his father. He won't be able to move forward. He says, I'm not a woman. I'm not a man, I am something that you'll never understand. I'll never beat you. I'll never lie. And if you're evil, I'll forgive you. bye and bye

These are his promises to his father to his future partner. And when I was dancing to it, you guys, I never heard on never beat. I heard I'll never hurt you. So again, we're elevating it all the more he's being right out there with what this song is on. never beat you on never lie. And if you're

Michelle Newman 1:27:48

I always heard it as I'll never be you.

Kristin Nilsen 1:27:51

I'll never be you. I'll never hurt you. I'll never be you. Yeah, I never

Michelle Newman 1:27:55

heard and I never once got and if you're evil, I feel like I'll forgive you by him by never. I wonder what I

Kristin Nilsen 1:28:03

buy and buy. Okay, but wait, there's more. And this is where Carolyn just about lost her teeth. Because even more. These words are evoking the words of Jesus Christ. Not even like I would die for you. The resurrection, I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me shall have eternal alive, church camp, raise your hand church camp. And in each verse, he actually sings in the voice of a different part of the Holy Trinity. So the Father, the Father, is what I just said above. I'm not a woman. I'm not a man. I am something that you'll never understand. And most importantly, if you're evil, I'll forgive you by and by, and then listen to this. Then you have the sun. I'm not your lover. I'm not your friend. I am something that you'll never comprehend. No need to worry. No need to cry. I'm your Messiah. And you're the reason why. Oh.

Unknown Speaker 1:29:08

Oh, wow, this

Carolyn Cochrane 1:29:08

could be we could see this in church.

Kristin Nilsen 1:29:10

Yes, you could. Okay, now churches do. Let's get to number three. You've got the Holy Spirit. I'm not a human. I am a dove. I'm your conscious I Am Love. All I really need is to know that you believe

Carolyn Cochrane 1:29:25

that you won't die

Kristin Nilsen 1:29:27

for you. And the dogs, the dogs the dogs come back the doves come back, and the doves are peace.

Michelle Newman 1:29:34

Yes. Even cry anymore and they're not crying anymore.

Kristin Nilsen 1:29:38

Oh my god, peace When Doves Cry. When Doves Cry is when there's no peace, right? Oh my god few books. And we're recording this. And then later that night after we were done recording, I sent you guys an emergency text because I was still figuring it out. There was still that was more coming to me and I'm gonna read you exactly the word Isn't my text I said, I just had a Purple Rain brainstorm. When the dad tried to kill himself. Was he literally trying to die for the mom, I would die for you. I'll protect you by killing myself. Oh my god, I will die so that you may live sound familiar? Okay, I'll stop now. I'm gonna add a little crossing Moji

Carolyn Cochrane 1:30:20

Oh, Reverend Chris,

Michelle Newman 1:30:21

I think there is there is a lot of kind of religious, you know, Symbols and Symbolism in this in the music and in this movie. And by the way, you didn't have a Purple Rain brands had a purple rainstorm

Kristin Nilsen 1:30:37

storm. Oh, you guys that song in particular was one of the

Michelle Newman 1:30:42

most that's the really bad day of your period.

Kristin Nilsen 1:30:46

Purple Rain storm. And then the climax of the movie arrives. Just as the movie is reaching its apex. It was like our conversation in the attic was reaching its apex to like we had gone on this journey together. And we arrived at this place. And it felt so good. Because the movie culminates in what is the true resurrection point of the movie, baby I'm a star

here's how it went down in the attic. We're reaching the the apex of our transformation. And it ends with baby um, star. Because basically, if you break the cycle of abuse, if you can be a better person, if you can let Wendy and Lisa show their talents and not just focus on yours. You can be a star we all can be

Michelle Newman 1:31:48

nice on Earth. Yes.

Kristin Nilsen 1:31:50

And it is a celebration. And for me to sit on that couch. Like I mean, obviously I'm like couch dancing. But what I wanted to do was stand up and dance because that's not a sign you can sit down for it is a true celebration secrets.

Carolyn Cochrane 1:32:03

I'm gonna have to revisit I might have to watch it. Again. Yes. Yeah, certainly listen to the soundtrack while I'm reading the lyrics,

Kristin Nilsen 1:32:12

yes. Go back.

Carolyn Cochrane 1:32:15

Powerful again, he was just

Michelle Newman 1:32:17

like, this is exactly the aha moment we had when discussing Saturday Night Fever.

Kristin Nilsen 1:32:22

Yeah, you're right. And it's funny, when you have three people in a room talking about these things, we feed off of each other, we bounce things off of each other, and things become more clear. And then you start to see that what you know, I made classified as a B movie as an adult is really quite profound and meaningful things. And this is what the director mins No, this is a story that applies to everybody.

Carolyn Cochrane 1:32:47

Well, everybody needs to listen to this episode. Tell all of your friends, listeners, because this is profound. And I don't know how many people when it was out, would have gotten this.

Kristin Nilsen 1:33:01

You guys, this discussion has changed everything for me. Because I really didn't know what this movie was about. And it's a movie about the cycle of domestic violence. It's a movie about misogyny. It's not featuring misogyny. It's about misogyny. And this was a story we didn't hear in 1984, which is maybe why we didn't pick up on those messages, except for the burning bed and Little Penny slash Janet Jackson on Good Times. We didn't know anything about domestic violence or how it worked. And that's what this movie was about.

Michelle Newman 1:33:35

And I think going back to what we were just talking about, about the religious symbolism. And I do think it's also a movie about a type of a resurrection. And it's a type of, you know, it's a redemption of resurrection, for sure. And I think that's what he wanted it to be. And I think the only reason I'm thinking that is just because the lyrics are so pointed. Now, now that I know what these lyrics are. And I'm not just going to

Unknown Speaker 1:34:02

let you name it, you know,

Michelle Newman 1:34:03

like I now having looked at these lyrics and thinking of them in the context of the movie and of the story he was telling. I think that that's what he was trying to show us.

Carolyn Cochrane 1:34:16

I agree. And I think it's that kind of the universal story of one. It's never too late, like you can be redeemed, you can be the change all of those things. And without that hope in life. I mean, what do we have? So it's, yeah, I think that is why was it? Was it Gene Siskel, who loved it?

Kristin Nilsen 1:34:37

Yes, yeah. Well, both of them Siskel and Ebert, Siskel and Ebert now forevermore, I will think of Princess The dove. I never thought of him as the dove. I'll think about what happens when doves cry. I'll think about him as the peacemaker. He's the peacemaker. That's what he wanted. Right?

Carolyn Cochrane 1:34:53

And just think about coming totally full circle to the beginning of our conversation last week and you talked about being at, at his home after he died and seeing all of these people together, all ages, all ethnicities, all of that stuff, and he had that ability to bring people together in a peaceful way or the crowd, downtown, you

Kristin Nilsen 1:35:18

guys, I worried that this movie wouldn't hold up, that it would be so of the 80s that it wouldn't have any meaning to people today. But I think our discussion proves that is far from true. And I think the San Francisco Chronicle said it best many years after its release. The Chronicle said, Purple Rain is a time capsule of style and attitude. It does what musicals are supposed to do. It rides the underlying currents of its moment and renders them glorious. Thanks for listening today for sticking with us through what was at times a really difficult conversation. But I truly believe that we will all be better for it.

Carolyn Cochrane 1:35:55

Yes, thank you so much for listening and for sharing all of your feelings about this iconic genic experience, because that's what it was. It was more than a movie, it was more than the music. It was an experience. We talked a lot about important songs and scenes, and you'll find some of those in our next Weekly Reader. So if you are not signed up for this great piece of literature, our weekly newsletter

Michelle Newman 1:36:19

is absolutely.

Carolyn Cochrane 1:36:22

So you can sign up for the weekly reader on our website. It will also have a link in our show notes. So you can click through that and sign up through the show notes for through our Lincoln bio on Instagram.

Kristin Nilsen 1:36:37

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Carolyn Cochrane 1:37:01

You know what they can do? They can go to me they can go to patreon.com That's pa t ar e o n.com and put pop culture Preservation Society in the search bubble. And

Michelle Newman 1:37:13

this week, we are giving a special shout out to Patreon supporters Nina Gail Elizabeth J. S Pam and Jennifer. Thanks you guys.

Kristin Nilsen 1:37:23

In the meantime, let's raise our glasses for a toast courtesy of the game Three's Company two good times.

Michelle Newman 1:37:29

Two happy days. Two Little House

Carolyn Cochrane 1:37:32

on the Prairie.

Unknown Speaker 1:37:33

Oh let's go crazy I

Unknown Speaker 1:37:43

tweeted

Kristin Nilsen 1:37:56

the information opinions and comments expressed in the pop culture Preservation Society podcast belongs solely to Carolyn the crush ologists and hello Newman, and are in no way representative of our employers or affiliates. And though we truly believe we are always right, there's always a first time the PCPs is written produced and recorded in Minneapolis, Minnesota Home of the fictional w j m studios and our beloved Mary Richards nananana who keep on truckin and may the Force be with you.

Unknown Speaker 1:38:22

Something always happens we'll never wait together.