The Makeout Mixtape

Carolyn Cochrane 0:00

I'm not sure there are words adequate enough to describe the impact this tape and its songs had on me. Wow, I

Michelle Newman 0:06

have three. Can I give them to you really quickly, three

Carolyn Cochrane 0:09

songs or three words, Grace, hello.

Unknown Speaker 0:17

There's a song that we're singing. Come on, get happy, is what we'll be bringing will make you happy.

Kristin Nilsen 0:32

Welcome to the pop culture Preservation Society, the podcast for people born in the big wheel generation who learned about Trojans from the lyrics of Lou Red Corvette.

Carolyn Cochrane 0:43

We believe our Gen X childhoods gave us unforgettable songs, stories, characters and images, and if we don't talk about them, they'll disappear like Marshall will and Holly on a routine expedition. And

Michelle Newman 0:56

today we'll continue to save the music sharing platform of Generation X, emphasizing what we think might have been its ultimate purpose. Today, we're saving the make out mixtape.

Carolyn Cochrane 1:07

I'm Carolyn,

Michelle Newman 1:09

I'm Kristen, and I'm Michelle, and we are your pop culture preservationists.

Speaker 1 1:14

Do that to me one more time

Speaker 2 1:18

once it's never ending with a man like you do that to me one more time. I can never get enough of a man like you.

Kristin Nilsen 1:33

Welcome back to our discussion about the most beloved ancient relic that ultimately belonged to just one generation hint that was us, and that is the mixtape, a DIY medium exchanged between friends and lovers that was, on its surface, a way to share music, but was actually a thinly veiled communication device intended to express our feelings to another person. There is one very particular kind of mixtape that we couldn't fit into last week's discussion, and to shortchange it would have been to erase an entire generation's yearning for something very specific because of the age we were when we were making mixtapes, when, whether you were in middle school or high school or college, a lot of our mixtapes were intended to woo or inspire special feelings that encouraged us to get closer to another person, possibly with our bodies, because we were in the midst of our sexual awakening. Today, we are talking about the make out mixtape. Is that heavy breathing again,

Michelle Newman 2:45

I have such a weird feeling around the whole makeup mixtape that that grows and evolves because, like in, you know, junior high, when you knew friends were making them, or whatever, I have still that less than feeling right, that uncomfortable feeling, and also the terrifying that was scary to me to think about, wait, you want these songs to play when you're like doing what, like kissing a boy with your tongue, yeah? But you know, then I can go into high school and you can hear the songs that, and that's when I still felt less than because I didn't have a boyfriend and I wanted one so desperately, I still probably would have been terrified, but I would have, you know, taken that everybody

Kristin Nilsen 3:28

else wanted, right? Yeah, so

Michelle Newman 3:30

no, and it was,

Kristin Nilsen 3:35

it's a pine it is, and

Michelle Newman 3:36

it harkens back, though, to high school and adolescence is hard, right? Yes,

Kristin Nilsen 3:41

yeah, yes,

Carolyn Cochrane 3:43

it's hard, exactly. And I think it depends, too on how old you were when mixtapes were kind of in their heyday, or whatever. So I was older. I was pretty much in college from, you know, 83 to 87 and earlier than that high school and had a boyfriend. So, you know, I could see how junior high for you, Michelle. And thinking about these songs, some of the songs that I listened to while I was doing seven minutes on the closet or whatever, yeah, still give me like you might bring up stuff in the back, because

Michelle Newman 4:15

maybe we weren't ready for we right emotionally or like there was one part of us that wanted that, like I did love a good air supply romantic song, but then the thought of doing something during that song actually terrified me. Yeah? So it's like, it's like all parts of our bodies weren't syncing up yet, yeah?

Kristin Nilsen 4:34

Oh, that's a really good way of putting it. And we talked about this a little bit in our Fast Times, conversation about how the reason that gives us these weird feelings is because this was the business of adolescence, which is trying to get to the other side of sex. Essentially, I'm on this side of sex right now, and someday I have to be on the other side of sex. But how do you get to that place? And some people just look so comfortable with the idea, and they've. Gone to the other side so easily, and you don't know how to get there, and you're scared about what comes before it, and that is the business of high school. But the make out mix tape itself was a vital part of coming of age in the 80s and the 90s. I asked our friend Katie if she had any make out mix tapes, and she sent back a photo of a pile, a pile. Whoa. Katie mixtapes. I knew girl Katie, and her response was, Does this answer your question? And then I texted my friend Leah, who I knew was a big mixtape maker, and I said, were any of your mixtapes makeout mixes? And her reply was, weren't they all make out mixes?

Carolyn Cochrane 5:46

But even if you never got any action in high school, not naming names. Michelle, my

Michelle Newman 5:52

hands raised, hey, I own it now, at the time, shamed by it. But now you know, well,

Kristin Nilsen 5:58

let's be real. Let's be real for you know, like, 50% of the people weren't getting any. 50% of the people were getting some. So how is that not normal? Things are normal. Just to level the plane, it's shameful. That's right. You think

Michelle Newman 6:16

you're the only you don't want to admit that. Yeah, that's

Carolyn Cochrane 6:19

right. So for some of us, those tapes might have been aspirational. Maybe they were helping you fantasize about the things you would like to do if you were given a chance or or maybe your tape raising my hand again, yeah. Or maybe your tape was just step one in helping someone think about you in that way. There's a great blog post from Rust Belt Jesse called How to Make a mixtape in parentheses for someone you have a crush on. And we're going to put a link to that essay in our show notes and in our Weekly Reader this week. It was originally posted in 2003 but it has since been published in many different forms, both online and in print, because apparently Rust Belt Jesse struck a chord, and she says, So you're thinking you want to make a tape, right? You're sitting in your bedroom that's covered in pictures of rock stars. You tore out of magazines, staring out the window, and you are feeling like, Man, I am so alone in my intense abyss of deep pain, and no one could possibly understand what I'm going through, except maybe that really cute girl that wears the crusty clash t shirt all the time. She'd understand you, but you have to find a way to let her know how you feel, so you make her a mixtape.

Michelle Newman 7:39

I feel like Rust Belt Jesse could write the intro to every John Hughes movie. Yeah, doesn't it sound like couldn't you just picture that? It was so visual.

Kristin Nilsen 7:49

It's so visual, and it makes me realize how important my bedroom was when I was in junior high and high school. That's like, where my life took place, because that's where all my angst was, right? All of the being inside my head was on my canopy bed, just going, yeah,

Carolyn Cochrane 8:06

yeah, and feeling like you are the only one, the only one, yeah, who's gonna get me? Who's gonna understand?

Michelle Newman 8:11

I had this image when you said that, that's where all your angst was, and I'm inside, like, agreeing, yes. And I had this image of all of our bedrooms in like, seventh, eighth grade with the doors closed, right? But as soon as you cracked them, it was, it would be like a visual, like, like, all this shit would come flying out of the crack of the door, like, just this horrible sound. And like, yeah, like, right?

Kristin Nilsen 8:38

Like, if you were making a puff of black smoke, like Dick Van Dyke and Mary Poppins. Oh, gosh.

Carolyn Cochrane 8:46

Well, as we mentioned last week, there are a lot of rules when making a mixtape, and for some people, and for rust belt Jessie, that included something that was important to a lot of a mixtape aficionados of the day, she adds, by the way, dude, if you listen to mostly popular music, don't even bother making a tape. Anyone can just turn on the radio and hear that shit. So what? What's the point? So this sounds a little bit like Rob the John Cusack character of title, fidelity, I think, yeah,

Kristin Nilsen 9:15

looking down her nose, yeah. But

Michelle Newman 9:18

you guys, this is precisely why I think I didn't make mixtapes, but made more playlists. I'm just putting all the popular songs on. Well, that

Kristin Nilsen 9:27

was your happy place, right? Yeah, yeah, it was funny, until I saw this quote from her, which is both really funny and really snobby and really true, all at the same time, I realized that that that my mixtapes coming from my boyfriend. In particular, the make out mix tapes were from okay, sorry, mom. The mixed makeout mix tapes were coming from my boyfriend. He was definitely following this rule. All of the songs on my make out mix tape are deep tracks, which means it's almost difficult for me to share on this episode, because I don't know if anybody's gonna know any of these songs, but it was almost like. A badge of honor, how deep you went into the album, showing how, how hip you were, that you weren't basic, right? That was like, like, we're like, Rob in high fidelity, yeah,

Carolyn Cochrane 10:11

but it goes to the point we made last week in that these mixtapes are so personal, and I think intimate was a word we used last week, and they really tell a lot about the person, like, you know, you by using the deep tracks Kristen, like, I would say, Wow, she really knows her music, like she probably sits with headphones on, like those big things, and kind of looks at the album cover while she's listening, and she knows what's on the, you know, side two, track three, and that would really impress me, because I, like Michelle, was either if I had the album just, you know, picking up the needle and moving it to the song, the song

Kristin Nilsen 10:49

that you liked, it was like a deep track equaled a deep person. Yeah,

Carolyn Cochrane 10:53

right. Oh, that's deep kind of, yeah. So Rust Belt Jesse goes on to say the first thing you should know is that there are a lot of different kinds of mixtapes, tapes to listen to while driving your car, tapes to give your best friend to remind them of you, tapes of songs all about one theme. But the kind of mixtape I'm going to tell you how to make is the most difficult and maybe the most rewarding kind of tape to put together, a tape that will get your crush person to want to make out with you.

Kristin Nilsen 11:26

I mean, she just gets to the point, right, your crush, and I love how she says, crush person, crush person, yeah, but your crush person will want to make out with you, because you gotta get to the other side, right? Gotta get to the other side.

Carolyn Cochrane 11:37

And then she has her instructions. There are those rules which are rigid, and there's some admonishments in there as well, because, as we've learned, this is serious business.

Michelle Newman 11:50

And as we all know, a good mixtape tells a story. You can't just take a book and start cutting chapters out and skipping things, mixing things up, that's right, tells a story. And if you hand someone a mix tape on a CD, well, they're going to be very tempted to just hit shuffle or skip forward, forward, right? And she says that if the songs fit together, well, it's about the whole experience. Yeah,

Kristin Nilsen 12:16

right? And that so that could be a 90 minute listening experience,

Michelle Newman 12:20

which is a really long makeout session. Yeah, yeah.

Kristin Nilsen 12:22

I hadn't thought about it those terms. That's true.

Carolyn Cochrane 12:26

I think, to add some rules to hers, and for you guys to know, like, you don't like push play, and all of a sudden it's like you've locked lips. You kind of get into the

Michelle Newman 12:37

foreplay music

Carolyn Cochrane 12:38

and all of that. So, yeah, by the time you actually get into it, you might be 30 minutes into the That's true. That's the whole point

Kristin Nilsen 12:45

of the building, right? Like, where you have to, like, Robin high fidelity says you have to take it up a notch.

Michelle Newman 12:51

I love how Robin high fidelity says, I'm gonna, I'm gonna mangle this quote. But he says something like, Ah, you don't want to shoot your watch. And I think he's talking, you know, I think it's several meaning that are but so funny. It's

Kristin Nilsen 13:06

that whole thing where it's funny because it's true, like she's making fun, but we actually did use these rules. But this is the funniest part. Her warning that in the middle of making your tape, you will have a panic attack and you will wonder, how could they ever like me?

Unknown Speaker 13:19

Yeah. And

Michelle Newman 13:21

I also like how she's talking about the way you hand it to the person, right? There's a whole so listeners, you're going to have to trust us on this, and just click the link in this week's Weekly Reader and read this because it's really funny. Well, the art of the DIY mixtape may be in our past, but the desire to capture its magic is still alive and well. Here is an example of someone trying to capture the mixtape magic of old, who asked this question on askmetafilter.com

Kristin Nilsen 13:52

this is so funny. Oh my God,

Michelle Newman 13:56

my boyfriend and I like making out a lot. I've made a playlist on my iPod for this purpose, but we like different genres, and this playlist is heavy on stuff I like. He does enjoy it, but I'd like to add some appropriate classic rock, his favorite genre, as a surprise for the next time we're messing around, not too picky on vibe, as long as it's more or less make out appropriate. So what did folks kiss to in the 1670s and possibly 80s? This

Kristin Nilsen 14:29

is a real question on the interweb. Somebody is actually asking this question.

Michelle Newman 14:37

You know, what? She She cares? She cares. She cares. She's a giver. She doesn't just want this to be something that gets her romantic and makes her have the feels. She wants him to have some songs that give him the feels too, right?

Kristin Nilsen 14:52

This is a two person sport, it is. And

Michelle Newman 14:55

so here are some of the answers from askmetafilter.com the answers.

Kristin Nilsen 14:59

That people have are just as funny as the question. And the very first answer is stairway. Layla Freebird done, like, that's it stairway, like you're doing it now through those three songs, now you're doing it because stairway is 11 minutes, so that's a good ramp up, right there.

Michelle Newman 15:16

Yes, some of the other answers were dreamboat. Annie is kind of a classic mid 70s foreplay soundtrack now that I think about it. And then, as we've already said, this season, the words from Mike Demone and Fast Times at Ridgemont High. Now this is the most important Rhett when it comes down to making out whenever possible. Put on side one of Led Zeppelin four

Kristin Nilsen 15:37

classic. Talk about throwback. I love that. Somebody said this. He said, no question. In my corner of mid 70s, hormone infused suburbia, the absolute number one make out record was side one of the best of bread. This is not sign two. That's too rock. Girls don't like it. Okay? It's too rock. Also,

Michelle Newman 15:56

though, I'm gonna listen to, I want to listen to side one of the best of bread. Aren't you guys? Curious? Absolutely. Thank god. Okay, good listeners.

Carolyn Cochrane 16:07

They're both shaking their heads. In a couple hours, maybe get that trickle to become a flu. You have to listen to last week's episode that

Michelle Newman 16:22

was good, Carolyn, and

Unknown Speaker 16:24

if you're wondering what this song is

Unknown Speaker 16:33

leading to, I wanna make it with you.

Carolyn Cochrane 16:36

All right, guys, buckle up, because I'm gonna share some stuff with you. It is not an understatement to say that there is one particular make out mix tape that changed the course of my life. It was titled mellow mix. Two words, mellow M, E, L, L, O, W, mix, which kind of looks like Meow Mix when you look at it without the s, and you start going, meow, meow, meow, meow, meow. Going,

but it was not, it was mellow mix, and it was painstakingly created by my now husband, Andy. I'm not sure there are words adequate enough to describe the impact this tape and its songs had on me. Wow, I

Michelle Newman 17:16

have three.

Carolyn Cochrane 17:18

Can I give them to you really quickly, three songs or three words,

Kristin Nilsen 17:23

Grace, you have three mellow mix. You need mellow mix, mellow mix two and mellow mix like bonus baby,

Carolyn Cochrane 17:32

bonus edition. Yeah,

Michelle Newman 17:34

no. Mix returns. The mellow mix had been lost in some boxes for like, 10 years, and then it was like, hey, look what I found, Grace.

Kristin Nilsen 17:47

Oh, gosh, I'm so sorry. I'm just like, listening, thinking about your poor children if they listen to this.

Carolyn Cochrane 17:53

Oh, wait, are you kidding? I have no filter. This has been brought up, I'm sure, at our kitchen table. So time travel. Ladies with me. Okay, imagine, if you will. It's the spring of 1985 and you're coming back from an all school party to hang out with this guy you thought was cute since the first time you've chatted with him in child psychology the year before, your head is spinning a bit at the reality of it all. A few things impress you the minute you walk into his very clean dorm room. There are no clothes strewn about. There is mood lighting. We don't have that overhead fluorescent light. We have a very strategically placed yellow arm, like desk lamp, but it's shining upward. It's like giving up. He's

Michelle Newman 18:37

good, yeah.

Carolyn Cochrane 18:42

And there's a cool wood panel divider that separates the storm room into a living space and then into a sleeping area. All right, huh? The living space has a couch, a TV, a fridge, and on the other side of the wall where the bunk beds and a pretty amazing stereo setup. So Andy goes back and puts some music on, and I began to hear The first notes of missing you by John Waite.

Kristin Nilsen 19:22

See see every time I think of you, I always catch my breath.

Carolyn Cochrane 19:38

That was what Andy's effect wanted. Trickle

Kristin Nilsen 19:40

This is an electrical of estrogen. I felt it. I felt it.

Carolyn Cochrane 19:45

Well, this make out tape does its intended job, because soon enough, that's exactly what is happening, and the music that is playing in the background is inscribing itself in my brain. It's important to note that I didn't know a lot of these songs. That appeared on mellow mix. There were some deep cuts from artists I did recognize, along with some artists I had very little knowledge of, if any. This is when I start to get a sense that this guy, he's something special. He has a breadth of musical taste, and he really knows music.

Kristin Nilsen 20:15

So that means that those rules are legit, like you were impressed, yes, by him sharing those deep tracks with you,

Carolyn Cochrane 20:22

he's slowly becoming more than just that cute guy from child psychology. And so I recently asked him, in getting ready for this episode, how he went about choosing the songs from Ella mix. And he said, kind of like I shared last week, that he chose songs that made him feel a certain way, that created a mood and and this might be my embellishing a little bit, but that created a stirring effect, like somewhere and not just in your ears, okay, wow. And I can tell you with 100% certainty, that is exactly what melamics did for me. Wow to this day, whenever I hear any of the songs from that mixtape, those feelings come rushing back. Well, that might be embellishing too. They come trickling back, they come back, and they are stirring. So are you guys ready? Because I'm going to share the track list with you. Oh,

Kristin Nilsen 21:17

I'm so excited. I mean, first of all, I just have to hand it to I mean, that was success. Success, right?

Carolyn Cochrane 21:25

Get your pens and pencil. Okay, because we you're going to want to write this down, missing you, okay, missing you by John Waite. We've got first. Then we have heaven by Brian Adams. It's a good one. Then this is where it gets me.

We have hard habit to break. By Chicago, you're the inspiration by Chicago, yep, oh, two Chicago's in a row. Yeah, he might have been a little lazy in this but it doesn't matter, because I know, I mean, I would know what songs were coming next. It's just and we can never hit shuffle. We have it on a playlist, and you do not hit shuffle at all, because you're

Kristin Nilsen 22:11

building, he's we know what he's building toward. And he got there. It worked. The formula worked.

Carolyn Cochrane 22:16

These songs, okay, so why can't it wait till morning? Is by Phil Collins, and that's a deep set, and don't let him steal your heart away another Phil Collins song. Okay, that's so oh my gosh, you guys. I

Michelle Newman 22:32

won't tell you what I'm saying. Hey,

Speaker 3 22:40

you follow me and you need a friend, and he was there at the right time with the right smile, just to show you someone. Tell you it'll all work out all right.

Carolyn Cochrane 22:58

Now I'm kind of getting introduced to a new artist. I think where we get we're going all the way, by Jeffrey Osborne, foreshadowing, I'm not sure. Wait, yeah, and

Michelle Newman 23:07

let's not wait. Can we just pause for a second? We're going all the way. Is now 123456, songs, and that's 2425 minutes in.

Carolyn Cochrane 23:16

That's 25 minutes. Pretty

Kristin Nilsen 23:18

smart, yeah. Or maybe that was just when he was letting you know that that's where you were going. That's where we're

Michelle Newman 23:23

going. That's right. Well, and then clearly, if Carolyn wanted to, because we're all about consent here at the pop culture, that's right. Okay,

Carolyn Cochrane 23:33

we continue with Jeffrey Osborne and on to what would become our first dance song at our wedding on the wings of love. The wings. Okay, yeah, Ben, again. We talked about this song last week too, and this gets me in the gut. This is through the fire by Chaka Khan, such a cuddly the first time that I was well, either the party tapes or this make out tape, then we go to a little James Ingram trilogy.

Kristin Nilsen 24:03

Have we flipped it over yet? Are we still on side one?

Carolyn Cochrane 24:07

You know, I nine?

Michelle Newman 24:08

We probably still finishing side one. Yeah, side one. Okay. Wait, wait, finishing side one went through the fire. Yeah.

Carolyn Cochrane 24:30

And these are kind of sad now that I'm saying them out loud. The last one is, how do you keep the music playing, which is James Ingram and Patty, Austin. You

Speaker 1 24:51

How do you keep the music playing?

Unknown Speaker 24:57

How do you make it. It.

Michelle Newman 25:03

Oh, I know that song is yes song,

Kristin Nilsen 25:05

but you know what? But yes, it's a sad song, but it, but it instills in you a sense of longing, and you want to cling to this person, right? You

Carolyn Cochrane 25:14

know what? I whether I'm gonna ask him if you thought about that, because that is definitely a feeling I got, and I'm remembering now, as you put those words, like, we got to hold on to this. Like, you know, a lot of these songs, you know, why can't it wait till morning? Like, let's, let's just have this moment now.

Unknown Speaker 25:32

Yeah. So

Carolyn Cochrane 25:35

that was indeed the mixtape that I first fell in love with Andy. But to be clear, and I have to be honest here, this mixtape did exist before me. It was, I think Andy's go to mood creator word. He said, Don't make people think that I'm this like, you know, that's right. He assures me he did not play it on repeat as girls came and went from that dorm room. So I wasn't the first to be wooed by mellow mix, but I do believe I was the

Kristin Nilsen 26:04

last. Maybe it didn't, maybe it didn't work on the other people, and then that just was the magic key, like the person for whom it would work was the one.

Michelle Newman 26:13

And I just can imagine right now there's some unnamed person listening to this podcast who hasn't thought about that one guy she made out with at one time in college, and she's listening to Carolyn go through the order, and it's all coming back to when she's like, Oh my

Andy, We're just giving you a hard time.

Carolyn Cochrane 26:41

Yeah, we love you. And to be fair, Andy did create a make out mixtape just for me, and it was aptly titled, mellow mix two, which I think I alluded to, just for you.

Kristin Nilsen 26:53

Yes, oh, I feel so much better. All right. Okay, good, yes,

Unknown Speaker 26:56

T,

Carolyn Cochrane 26:58

O, O, as we said last year, the average number, and it did include probably a little more popular songs that were on the radio at the time, like one More night, which wasn't what we considered our song. Can

Yeah, we love that song, too. The next time I fall so 80s, Peter Cetera, Tam grant, somewhere out there, James in Linda, Ron

Kristin Nilsen 27:34

the mouse song.

Carolyn Cochrane 27:39

That's right, that was a great song and crazy for you by Madonna vision twist. I love that song, and so this tape was special in its own way, for sure, mellow mix two, but it will never, ever replace the OG mellow mix, much as the sequels are often not as good as the original. And I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that I fell in love with Andy to the songs of mellow mix. It really is the soundtrack to our love story. It was the constant, if that makes sense, and it still is.

Kristin Nilsen 28:10

And he did. I have to acknowledge that, you know, the in mellow mix two, when he put on songs that you would like, that is part of Rust Belt Jesse's rules is you have you choose songs that where you want to tell the person what you're like and who you are about, but then you also want to choose some songs that you think they will like like, because that says, I understand you, I get you. And

Carolyn Cochrane 28:33

he could kind of find those, I think a little in somewhere out there, because, you know, it is from, I think, is it a Disney movie? I

Kristin Nilsen 28:39

don't even know. It's not Disney, but it's definitely animated,

Michelle Newman 28:41

yeah, American Tail,

Kristin Nilsen 28:45

yeah, Russian mouse, the American mouse tail, oh, gosh,

Carolyn Cochrane 28:52

but it was Jay zroom, and yeah, Ron stat, so there you go. Oh,

Kristin Nilsen 28:56

I feel like fanning myself, but it's so funny, because your your feelings are so strong. Carolyn about mellow mix, and that's kind of our whole point, is that this wasn't just a collection of songs, no, it changed people's lives. It

Carolyn Cochrane 29:11

did well, like some of the things we say, you know, sometimes maybe books or things that were of the time. So it was music, yes, but it was the what I was feeling while I was hearing those songs, yeah, and what was happening this again, I, like I said, was a constant, so it wasn't a one and done. This is throughout our relationship. I mean, I knew if that was in the tape deck, you know, in 1999 or 2002 or I saw the case sitting out like it was, you know, let's just say that

Kristin Nilsen 29:46

we go to bed early. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 30:06

Burners.

Kristin Nilsen 30:22

A okay, my high school version of Andy's mellow mix. It had no name, but it's like, you it's legendary in my memory, and I have spent the past week in a in a constant state of Husker do. It's like, it's like I got in a time machine to my own brain in 1985 because I'm listening to songs that I haven't thought about in 40 years. Because, remember, they're all deep tracks. So I'm not hearing these songs on the 80s on eight, I literally have not heard them since I had a tape deck, which was in the 90s. There was a physical reaction when I heard these. It was like getting punched in the gut and in a good way, in a really nice way. And I'm and I'm figuring out that these songs played a bigger role in my life than I thought. It went bigger than making out. It went beyond the mixtape and the backseat. It it was because I used to write the lyrics on my folders in school, and I carried those words around with me in school all day long, even when I couldn't listen to the songs. I created art for my wall by writing the lyrics on parchment paper. I have an example. And then I'd take a cigarette lighter, and I would burn

Carolyn Cochrane 31:42

the edges calligraphy pen, yes,

Kristin Nilsen 31:44

with a calligraphy pen,

Michelle Newman 31:46

yes, all I see is touching my desire. Yes, it

Carolyn Cochrane 31:51

kind of looks like the Declaration of

Michelle Newman 31:56

Independence desire, and it shined at the bottom.

Kristin Nilsen 32:03

Oh, my God, that's exactly it looks like it got at him in the gift shop at Williamsburg, totally. But I invested in these lyrics so hard, especially the ones that talked about not making out, not sexy time, but the ones that talked about hardship and trusting your own voice and knowing that, as Lionel Richie told me, love will find a way, because that was the lead song on the tape.

Unknown Speaker 32:28

Are you feeling down, feeling like you can't go? Just remember, love will find the

Kristin Nilsen 32:42

wee This is a deep track. It is a sexy song. I also have to say that my makeout mix, which I didn't realize at the time, and it's only in retrospect, and it's only when comparing it to other people's makeout mixes, 100% r&b, like down and dirty, Super Bass, R and B. So that's what love will find a way has this real R and B vibe to it. This is the defining song on the whole tape, and also on parchment paper with my color Griffey pen music and lyrics. That's right, Hancock, but it's an elusive song. It's a total B side. So once this tape went away, I never listened to it ever again? So when I dialed it up on my phone,

Michelle Newman 33:25

it was real, though

Kristin Nilsen 33:27

intense. It was intense. The groove is so intense. There was, like I said before, with your songs, there was a sense of longing, even though my boyfriend made it for me, still, it makes me feel like I've lost something. I felt like I'm listening to it, and I felt like I was hiding in my bedroom, feeling sorry for myself, essentially. And that, again, that's also the work of high school, right? We're working on our big feelings, and we're losing things for the first time. So the very first words of the song, you get this very sexy intro, and the very first words are, are you feeling down and

Carolyn Cochrane 34:02

lonely, down in the Dumpy, sorry,

Kristin Nilsen 34:08

grumpy, yeah, I

Carolyn Cochrane 34:09

interrupted you feeling

Kristin Nilsen 34:10

feeling like you can't go on. Just remember, love will find a way. And when I heard those lyrics for the first time in 40 years, I remembered that I was mainlining this song at a time when I was really sad and things were not going my way at all. And this song was literally one of my coping mechanisms. Like, I would write the lyrics out over and over again, as if it was a form of therapy some and this was the part that, like, lifted me up, like, let's go down and in the Dumpy we're getting down in the dumping feeling sorry for myself. But then Lionel Richie brings it up a notch, and he says, Some say we've lost our way, Some say the world has gone astray, but if you know where you're going, there's nothing you can't do. And then there's a big crescendo. And I'm like, I can do it, Lionel, I can do it. But if

Unknown Speaker 34:58

your Hobbes. For your tomorrows, drowning in your sorrows, know your heart will show you

Kristin Nilsen 35:12

the way. But even more hilariously, as I'm listening, when the song gets to a certain line, I'm waiting like in my body, I can feel it. I know what's coming next, and except that it doesn't. I'm listening to it on and on Spotify, and it doesn't come next. And that's because the thing I was waiting for was a disruption on my tape, like someone accidentally pressed, pressed record and quickly let it go. And so it goes. Some say we've lost our way. Some say the world has gone astray. Gonk, and I was waiting for the gunk gunk, and it wasn't there, see, I

Carolyn Cochrane 35:55

mean, that's, that's kind of special. That's me. It was. And so

Kristin Nilsen 35:59

I've listened to it so many times since then. And now I get ready for the gunk, gunk that's not there. I just I can feel it in my chest, and it goes, Some say the world has gone astray. I'm gonna tell you the other titles on this make out mix, even though a lot of you aren't going to know any of these songs, but I just need to talk about them, because there are big feelings. The song tender love by force. MDS has probably the most beautiful piano riff in any song I've ever heard in my whole life, and it just makes me fall in love.

You. After the love by Earth, Wind and Fire, sweet love by Anita Baker. Brian

Michelle Newman 37:03

and I listened to that whole album all the time.

Kristin Nilsen 37:08

I can picture it now, yeah, the

Carolyn Cochrane 37:10

cassette I got that as like my Columbia record and tape Anita

Michelle Newman 37:15

Baker in the front, she's kind of going, yeah, she's So tiny with her short hair. Yeah.

Kristin Nilsen 37:41

Saturday, love by shirelle, and I remember trying so hard to the master the part where she goes, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday,

Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday. I did it. I mastered it, right? Yeah, you got it. Tell me that you still care by the SOS band is not available anywhere you can find covers of it. It's not out there people street from the heart by Earth, Wind and Fire was also on parchment on my on my wall. And then we end the tape with, I like it by Elder barge. I've

Speaker 2 38:27

been thinking about you for quite a while. You're on my mind every day and every night. My every thought is you, the things you do seem so satisfying to me.

Unknown Speaker 38:53

You send shoes.

Kristin Nilsen 39:00

I just found the folder that has these lyrics written on them, and I can remember sitting in Mr. Edwards class, in English class, writing those lyrics on my folder as he's telling us about like Silas Marner or something.

Unknown Speaker 39:18

Wow, I love you. Thank

Michelle Newman 39:23

you nice voice, too. I feel like DeBarge deserves to be on every mid 80s make out mix to remind all of you who may not have been rabid fans of DeBarge monsters. DeBarge was an American musical recording group active from about 1979 to 1989 and composed of several members of the DeBarge family. L, Mark Randy and bunny. Oh, Bunny, I just love Elle barge. L, you guys might remember some of their hits include all this love you wear it well, which is the song he faked. Sang on facts of life in 1985 with the girls as his backup singers in the most 80 outfits and hairstyles you will ever see you.

Kristin Nilsen 40:25

Blair and Joe

Carolyn Cochrane 40:28

and that and the Weekly Reader, if we Oh,

Michelle Newman 40:30

my God. My favorite of all of them is Natalie, her outfit, she got the collar popped, and her hair is like a bob, but she's got it pulled over into a side pony, like half up pony, and then tutti and Joe have, like, curly mullets, and so does George Clooney, by the way, Episode The waiting room of all the other girl groups, is the most 80 thing you will ever see. Just watch it. It's on to be I just rewatched it, and it's just, it's weird, so cringy,

Kristin Nilsen 40:59

but it's so cringy. And I just feel like, when you're watching, you're like, did we have to do this? Because they're really, they're like, we're backup singers. We're back up singers. I know you've never seen us do backup.

Michelle Newman 41:08

And they get down to there in the final two, and then the other, the other group is disqualified because they had sang like a club before and gotten paid for it. But

Kristin Nilsen 41:17

it's a little silver platters.

Michelle Newman 41:19

If what I love is that in all the scenes, even when they go to have the big meeting with DeBarge and seeing George Clooney, who, if we remember correctly, he's just like the handyman at the school slash store. He's just always sitting on the counter with like his leg up. He also just shows up in the studio with Elle DeBarge.

Kristin Nilsen 41:38

It's so cringy, but

Michelle Newman 41:40

time will reveal is a song that still kills me. You guys, that song kills me. It's the ballads. It's the time will reveals in El debarges, high tenor and falsetto that will melt you me into a puddle. I mean a puddle, I tell you.

Speaker 4 42:02

I What can I do to make you feel so cute, remove all your doubts, so that you know for sure that you're the apple. Love my young girl. I love my girl.

Michelle Newman 42:26

It's like you said, Kristen. It's like the lyrics even of that song. And it's such a retro feel song. It's such a sort of like kissing a fool by George Michael, which is another one that just gets me hang on everyone. I need to take a break. I swear it's the songs like you guys were talking about that aren't so in your face. You know, time will show the value of just what you mean to me. And he's got that voice too precious than silver. It wouldn't mean

who? But this time that's a romance for me. And my whole life, I've been such a true romantic that you mix that throwback music, that throwback kind of 50s feel, with those lyrics and that high falsetto I'm done, it's so it's

Kristin Nilsen 43:39

almost subtle. It's almost like he's holding back just a little bit to make you come hither. Right?

Michelle Newman 43:45

So good,

Kristin Nilsen 43:46

so good. So we asked our followers, you know, we have our own mixtapes, we have our own favorites. And we asked our followers, we want to know what is your number one song that has to be on your makeout mix? We didn't want the whole track list. What is the song that it wouldn't be a make out mix without this song? And the results were, I love asking our followers. It's always so much fun, and it's always a surprise. I always think I know what the answers are going to be, and I'm never right. There were two songs, one I could predict, one I could not predict at all. There were two songs that were mentioned over and over and over and over again. The first one which I could predict was open arms by journey and

Michelle Newman 44:57

I mean, yeah, right,

Kristin Nilsen 44:58

yeah, let's all follow. Love right now, but the next one I hadn't thought about at all, take my breath away by Berlin, which is the love theme from Top Gun Club.

Unknown Speaker 45:20

Emotional.

Kristin Nilsen 45:26

Once I figured it. I was like, oh yes, of course, that totally works, but I never would have pulled that out. There were some that were mentioned multiple times, not quite as much as open arms and journey. And they were the flame by cheap trick, Careless Whisper by George Michael in your eyes by Peter Gabriel, which of course, is John Cusack holding the boom box over his head.

Some sometimes, and then, like you said, Carolyn, crazy for you. By Madonna, that one also got multiple mentions. But in addition to that, I am gonna mention the single songs, because I just think this alone makes for a great makeout tape. So I'm just gonna read them all to you. True by Spandau Ballet, melt with you, by modern English Avalon, by Roxy Music. There was a lot of Roxy Music, actually, which I totally agree. They were single titles, but I totally agree more than this Roxy Music, when I see you smile, John Waite, or is it the babies? I don't know if it's John Waite or the babies.

Carolyn Cochrane 46:40

I think it's John Waite, I don't know, though,

Kristin Nilsen 46:44

when I'm with you by Sheriff, heaven by warrant, close to you, by the cure. That's kind of a bop. So that one kind of surprised me, just like heaven also by the cure. There was a lot of Thompson twins, including hold me now. There were a couple other songs from the Thompson twins that surprised me. Angel by Aerosmith. Oh, here we go. If you were here, by Thompson twins, how about Up Where We Belong from the officer and gentlemen,

Michelle Newman 47:09

this is reminding me of our prom episode.

Kristin Nilsen 47:12

Yeah, a lot of the middle school dance songs here, I Love You by climax blues band. That's a sexy song, but here's a super sexy song, loving, touching, squeezing by journey.

Unknown Speaker 47:32

I wanna die. You said we cry.

Speaker 5 47:34

Love him. I I love him. Touch him.

Unknown Speaker 47:50

Squeezing, oh

Kristin Nilsen 47:50

god, I love it. You're the best thing. By style counsel, love my way by Psychedelic Furs, reasons, this is great. Somebody said reasons by Earth, Wind and Fire is the number one make out song of all time. I'm not going to disagree with that. I'm I'm going to come right there with you.

Carolyn Cochrane 48:08

Test that out later. You should let you know. Report on the findings

Kristin Nilsen 48:13

always and forever. By heat wave, slow dancing by Johnny rivers, lights by journey Love Song, more by the cure, waiting for a girl, waiting for a girl. Love You by foreigner. Actually, that song came up multiple times too. Can you stand the rain? By New Edition Red Rain, by Peter Gabriel. Fade into you by Mazzy Starr. That's a perfect make out mix song, rhythm of love, by the scorpions. You guys, how about you got it all by the Jets? Yeah, I

Michelle Newman 48:43

put that one up there with my kissing of fools, and time will work. Will reveals. Yeah, I

Kristin Nilsen 48:48

get weak by Belinda Carlisle, and with or without you, by you too.

Carolyn Cochrane 48:53

Oh yeah, that's

Michelle Newman 48:54

a good one. There's one huge omission on here that I'm adding. Tell me, and I know this is, this is not the song. Is not from the 80s, but how deep is your love by the bee. Gees, you guys, I can currently be in the middle of a menopausal mood, right? And you put that song on, and I will melt. My husband knows it. He's a smart man. Yeah, you know, that's one of those. You hear that song on and you're just like, Okay, it's interesting when it comes on, when we're like, in public.

Carolyn Cochrane 49:35

But interestingly, I see no air supply.

Kristin Nilsen 49:37

What I know there's, the only mention of air supply was Amy, lively from 70s podcast. She didn't mention a single song, but she's like, don't you think air supply needs to be on here? And I was surprised that nobody else brought that up, because I think she's right. Yeah,

Michelle Newman 49:52

I go back to that person who asked the question that she wanted, what kind of songs were people kissing, too? Because I want to put. Some songs on my list that my boyfriend likes. You know, my husband might not really love it if we had air supply on, Oh,

Kristin Nilsen 50:07

see, that's interesting our list, that's what he would put on your tape when he's trying to impress you. Yeah, I think the number one air supply song for a makeout tape would be making love.

Unknown Speaker 50:20

It. I'm sure

Carolyn Cochrane 50:24

I've told you the story when my sister wanted the album and my mom went into the record store like, this is for Christmas or something, and asked for, I can't remember the name. All I know is that it has oxygen in it. She remembered air supply as a song set of oxygen. That

Unknown Speaker 50:49

I don't know how to leave you.

Kristin Nilsen 51:02

So this has been, as I said at the top, one of the Husker deweyest episodes we've ever done, because it's the intersection of music and the age of which we were really growing up. That's when the music seeps into your cells and becomes an actual part of your body, and even if you forgot all about it because the mixtape maker was trying to be all cool and only included deep tracks and B sides, and because you can't listen to it, because you haven't had access to a tape deck since 1998 it's still there in your body, just waiting for you to remember whether you were actually getting it on or just pining for some action. The make out mixtape is a historic monument to our metamorphosis from children into sexual beings. Long live the make out mixtape. Thank you for listening today, and we will see you next week on

Speaker 1 52:02

the let the sound of the

Michelle Newman 52:07

wind. Today's episode was brought to you by our generous supporters on Patreon, who we honestly could not do this without. Today we're giving a special thank you to Joe. Elizabeth Claire, S W urban. You know, sometimes I say they have their email so, but we don't want to skip over them. Lance, Cheryl, Elizabeth and other Elizabeth, Kevin and Kara.

Kristin Nilsen 52:33

Thank you, everybody. So much. In the meantime, let's raise our glasses for a toast, courtesy of the cast of Three's Company, two good times,

Michelle Newman 52:42

two Happy Days,

Carolyn Cochrane 52:43

Two Little House on the Prairie,

Kristin Nilsen 52:45

two sexy times. I

Unknown Speaker 53:00

music, the

Kristin Nilsen 53:06

information, opinions and comments expressed on the pop culture Preservation Society podcast belong solely to Carolyn the crushologist and hello Newman, and are in no way representative of our employers or affiliates. And though we truly believe we are always right, there is always a first time the PCPs is written, produced and recorded in Minneapolis, Minnesota, home of the fictional wjm studios and our beloved Mary Richards. Nanu. Nanu, keep on truckin and May the Force Be With You. You.