Heartbreak & Hostages: A Rerun of the GenX TV Movie

Carolyn Cochrane 0:00

Hi listeners. Welcome to this encore presentation of episode 70, heartbreak and hostages, the Gen X made for TV movie, where we talk about this special art form that was low on budget and high on love triangles, deadly diseases, killer bees, lots of hostages. It's actually you guys the first of a double episode, because we follow this episode up with 71 which was a countdown of the top 10 Gen X made for TV movies. That's right, you guys. And I was revisiting those episodes, and I was really struck, oh my gosh, by how traumatic so many of them were.

Kristin Nilsen 0:38

It's horrible. Yes,

Carolyn Cochrane 0:39

like we said, killer bees, nuclear war, incest, kidnapping. Our TV watching you guys, when we were growing up, was filled with trauma. Even our TV shows could leave us shaken to the core. Uh huh, we actually devoted an entire episode to solely, just solely for the purpose of the traumas on Little House, on the prayer, just

Kristin Nilsen 0:58

that one show, just so traumatic, thanks to Michael Landon and his like, twisted brain,

Carolyn Cochrane 1:04

twisted brain and just it was the norm. That's what I've realized. What's so interesting

Michelle Newman 1:09

about that is that so many people I know, the three of us, are part of this group. We find so much comfort in Little House on the Prairie. That's our comfort. Show a lot that that had such a huge resurgence in popularity and viewing during COVID. It's a comfort show, which is kind of ironic, because probably a solid 50, 60% of those episodes are very traumatic. So

Kristin Nilsen 1:33

like to the point where I would be afraid of my favorite show. And I'm sure the same is for you guys. There was not a single time where my mom came in was like, Oh, I don't know if you should be watching this show when they're gonna shoot her horse. Like, no, Kristen, that's, let's, let's turn the TV off, because she's, they're gonna shoot her favorite horse.

Michelle Newman 1:52

Also, there's a big snowstorm in the forecast, Kristen. And you know what? I don't know if you should be watching them walk over dead people who died, your

Kristin Nilsen 2:01

neighbor, your dead neighbor, just walk over them, because we got to get back to the school,

Michelle Newman 2:05

they just kind of glanced down and they're like, well, he's

Kristin Nilsen 2:08

dead. He died. I

Carolyn Cochrane 2:10

wonder how traumatic it was for the actors to, yes, be acting in these traumatic scenes. Like, did it seem like

Michelle Newman 2:18

children just right? Their children,

Carolyn Cochrane 2:20

exactly you're and, you know, act like you're walking over dead, Mr. Whoever. Yeah, you gotta get back to, you know, you gotta find your way home. One scene

Kristin Nilsen 2:28

in particular that I always name my most traumatic scenes to be x. And then recently, I was like, no, no, it's x. And so I said to to Liam, my 22 year old son, I'm like, I'm gonna describe a scene for you, and you tell me what this is. So there's a there is a fire, and somebody in the fire starts, and the house is gonna burn down, and, oh no, a baby has been left in the house. Oh no, what are we gonna do? So so the nanny's running back into the house, and she picks up the baby, but she can't get out because of the fire, and so then she takes her elbow, and she's crashing the window, she's gonna break the window, and there are flames leaping out. And I said, What do you think that's from? And he's like, that sounds like a horror movie. I said, No, Little House on the Prairie with that image of Mrs. Garvey with her elbow crashing the window, holding the baby with the flames leaping right,

Carolyn Cochrane 3:22

that the parents of that child are blind. They can't see it. The only person that's really witnessing this is Hester Sue, right? Yes, because all the other people are blind, so they only hear your eyes, which probably amplify the cries. They can hear the crackling, they can smell the smoke. Oh, yeah. And Hester Sue is alone in witnessing this. Let's just pour on the gasoline, no pun,

Michelle Newman 3:49

yeah. And then let's make sure we Zoom in. Zoom in on the face of Mrs. Garvey holding

Carolyn Cochrane 3:56

the baby with matches, kids,

Kristin Nilsen 4:00

pipe.

Unknown Speaker 4:06

Oh,

Carolyn Cochrane 4:07

no wonder you got involved with some drugs. Later, I

Kristin Nilsen 4:10

wonder you're a meth addict.

Michelle Newman 4:12

Oh, my God, we had to ask our friend Melissa Gilbert, who also, by the way, we can't forget little house celebrating its 50th anniversary this year. And so when we were thinking about all these traumatic episodes, we had to send our friend Melissa a message and ask her, were there any of these episodes that traumatized you? Was there anything that left a mark or kept you up at night, and she came back. I just love. She was just so direct. She says, Sylvia hands down. We don't even talk about Sylvia in any of our little house episodes, because it's too much, too traumatic. We

Kristin Nilsen 4:57

can't say it out

Michelle Newman 4:58

loud. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah. And then she said it was followed by Albert on morphine, which I don't think any of us can forget. Albert on morphine basically foaming at the mouth, and

Kristin Nilsen 5:09

it's the trauma from starting the fire that killed Mrs. Garvey and the baby. Yeah, he's had to live with that. He became a morphine addict. Gosh, poor

Carolyn Cochrane 5:18

Albert. Well, yeah. So just think of those. Those are just a couple of the traumatic things. Just from little house. Again, we devoted an entire episode, but at the same time, you guys, this wasn't like out of the ordinary that we were exposed to these traumatic things, whether we were supposed to be learning something through the message that we were getting or they just wanted to scare a shitless, I don't know, like, don't leave the house. Your parents aren't home, and they're they're people in vans outside and all of this. So recently, I was on, I think I'm using the right lingo here. I was scrolling through a Gen X sub reddit. I think it was a subreddit on Reddit, and the original poster had asked, what were some things that scared Gen X the most? And oh my gosh, you guys the replies. I mean, no wonder we have. We're treating anxiety now like this is where it started. Okay, I just want to read you a couple of the things that people said. The responses go on and on and on. But one of the things that's, I guess, is kind of comforting, is that we were all scared of the same stuff. I mean, like, it didn't matter. I lived in West Virginia, and we were scared of this. And then someone's, like, I lived in New Mexico, we were scared of the same thing. And so, you know, there's the obvious, like the Pop Rocks and Coke, there were those kind of urban legend things. But in terms of, you know, quicksand, we got that idea from television, okay, from Scooby Doo Yeah, the kidnapping, like chloroform and like cloth being put up to your face. Yeah. I mean, that was TV. The white van was TV. And so some of these are so funny, I just have to read some of them. They're not all TV based, but they are like you guys and some of my forgotten about, like the poisoned Tylenol. We talked about the killer bees, the Bermuda Triangle. We said kidnapping, a shark attack. Like, you know, were people really afraid? Bunch of sharks before Jaws, right? I'm

Kristin Nilsen 7:17

sure I say this in our in our blockbusters episode, but I couldn't go swimming in a lake after jaws. And actually, I didn't even see jaws. It was just the commercials. Well, yeah,

Carolyn Cochrane 7:29

but all of a sudden, like pre Jaws, I don't my mom never talks about when she meets the beach as a kid, being scared of sharks, but that was like a given for us. This one, I vaguely remember, but so many people mentioned it, and it was Satanic Panic. Do you guys remember when afraid of the devil and the music backwards and what it was saying and all scary? I think we've talked about toxic shock syndrome, acid rain, yeah, but someone

Michelle Newman 7:57

did just die of that basic did you guys just see that? Yeah?

Carolyn Cochrane 8:01

Like, it was like a magazine. She wore her tampon for like 12 hours

Unknown Speaker 8:07

at a

Kristin Nilsen 8:13

wedding.

Carolyn Cochrane 8:17

I think this was like a Gen X scare. They're like, Oh, we want to get more Gen X readers. They're gonna click on there. Michelle and I both clicked on the toxic shock syndrome story. Stayed with us. Okay, what about driving at night with like, the interior car light on? Or like, did you guys remember like you, if someone was flashing their lights behind you, it was a signal the guy was standing, you know, he kept coming up from your back seat to stab you. Oh, wait. Oh, that's

Kristin Nilsen 8:43

not what I thought you were gonna say. Oh, there was that, my God, that's right, somebody in your back seat. That's right. It was just like, Oh, I was thinking of when you flash the headlights driving without their headlights on. Then, you know, to be kind you flash your headlights to say, Hey, your headlights aren't on, but it could be a prank. And the next, and it was like a gang initiation, that if somebody flashed their lights at you, well then you got to kill

Michelle Newman 9:09

them. Well, that was a ghost story, though, that we told at slumber parties, and I don't remember, but it was like, and the guy was flashing his lights behind you, and then when you finally pull over, he's like, because every time I flashed my lights, the person in the back seat was raising his arm up play a knife to kill you. And everybody would go, right?

Carolyn Cochrane 9:31

I believe that, you know, I mean, like, I always believe those stories, and

Kristin Nilsen 9:35

I still look in my back seat all the time. Well, yeah, that's what people said. They definitely look in my back seat.

Carolyn Cochrane 9:40

Why it's it's comforting, it's scary that we all like this. Obviously, over 50 years later, we are still impacted by these things. And it's so interesting to read that we all have the same ones. You know, yeah, what

Michelle Newman 9:55

about, what about the razor blades in your Halloween. Candy, yeah, that's a big one, or your apple. And then another one we were all scared about, that's been debunked, is if you go swimming like 30 minutes, but within 30 minutes after you eat, you're going to get a cramp and

Carolyn Cochrane 10:12

drown, or you swallow your gum, yeah, you know,

Kristin Nilsen 10:16

sticks to your lungs, yeah. How does that get in your lungs? I remember my mom saying that, Kristen, how does the gum get to your

Carolyn Cochrane 10:21

line where the watermelon seed? But you guys, I

Michelle Newman 10:25

would swallow gum, and sometimes accidentally, but I would just imagine that in my belly it was making like a gumball, like a gum wall. And then I'd be like, terrified that it was going to be like this giant wad of gummy I mean, I think we

Carolyn Cochrane 10:40

were all and then there were those kind of, like urban legend things. But then there was the real stuff that we learned, like in school, you know, all the fire stuff. I mean, I guess fire safety is important, but man, that scared the bejesus out of me. And, like, you know, the stop, drop and roll and who was gonna be the monitor? Like, you have to have those, like drills in your house, and who's gonna have the ladder that's right? Went down that rolly ladder and

Kristin Nilsen 11:04

you have the sticker on your window saying, I'm here, firefighters come save me. There's a child in this room. I'm gonna die in fire unless you come get me first. Well, that's our

Carolyn Cochrane 11:15

little Can we come full circle to our Little House on the Prairie? Episode? Yeah, oh my gosh. But it was so again, it was so fun to read these, because some I had forgotten about immediately went, Oh my gosh, yes, like some of those car ones, or, like, walking up to your car and there was someone

Michelle Newman 11:41

underneath fall over. Okay, but still, for real, you guys that can, I'm scared of, don't even, don't debunk that. That can happen

Kristin Nilsen 11:49

all of this stuff, not debunking it. But

Carolyn Cochrane 11:51

yeah, that's yes. Why our generation is the way we are. We can be on, like on what do I want to say? Our radar has to be yes for so many things

Michelle Newman 12:02

well, and don't forget, probably the biggest anxiety inducing thing of our Gen X area is the Game Perfection. Oh, right. There's nothing that puts you on the edge, like perfection or super I have superfection, so I had to, like, piece all the little pieces together, like little Tetris pieces. I was like, I don't know, I don't remember which one

Carolyn Cochrane 12:27

pharma back then, they were like, planting the seeds. Let's create an entire generation of freaked out, scared, anxious people, and then when they're adults that want to

Kristin Nilsen 12:36

take fears, we're gonna be rich. We're gonna come up with

Michelle Newman 12:39

these things called benzos. And so you guys, it's today is episode 200 Oh,

Unknown Speaker 12:49

I was like

Kristin Nilsen 12:50

waiting for the confetti to go.

Michelle Newman 12:52

I know there's a there's

Carolyn Cochrane 12:54

a centennial episode. It's like 1976

Kristin Nilsen 12:57

God, it's 1976 it's our personal 1976

Michelle Newman 13:03

and let's go back to Kristen, remembering we she thought we were only going to do six, originally, a

Kristin Nilsen 13:09

limited series, like on Netflix, like 694

Michelle Newman 13:13

later. You guys, honestly, I know this sounds really cliche, but it's just gone by in a blur, because we have so much fun, right? It really has. Because you guys, hold on for just a second. I'm glad you're sitting down, because at the end of this week, we'll be celebrating four years of the pop culture Preservation Society. Of our first episode is coming at the end of this week. So listeners, if you're listening today, watch social media at the end of this week, because I think we should just have a party. I think we should go Instagram Live with just a party. Okay,

Carolyn Cochrane 13:49

my gosh, dance party. Jaw is on the floor.

Kristin Nilsen 13:51

I really did not see this coming. I did not see four years. I really years the end of the forecast anything. I had no, I had no like, dreams of what this would become. I just thought I was going to show up and have some fun. I've never not had fun. I've never not sat in this chair and not had fun. How many double negatives is that I

Carolyn Cochrane 14:13

don't care, it doesn't matter, or

Michelle Newman 14:16

because that's the that's you guys, that is. That's the reason we're still going, we're still checking, and that is the reason for the success of what we've done, is because we always have fun. We enjoy it thoroughly. We are so fulfilled listeners by your messages and your DMS, your words of support and encouragement, your support by listening your support on Patreon and on our PayPal, it's, it's just become this great big ball of wonderfulness, right? And fulfillment for sure. Great big ball of wonderfulness. Yeah, we love all of you. So, yeah. So happy episode, 200 happy four year. To the pop culture Preservation Society. I think you guys should listen to this episode, Episode 71 and I don't know another 198

Carolyn Cochrane 15:08

Yeah. It helps our download numbers. Yeah. Thank you.

Michelle Newman 15:11

Do you want us around for a fifth year?

Carolyn Cochrane 15:16

So please enjoy this encore presentation of episode 70 heartbreaks and hostages. The Gen X made for TV movie.

Kristin Nilsen 15:23

Just a warning to our listeners today, TV movies of the 70s and 80s are rife with salacious and traumatizing topics, from incest and rape to psychopathic killers hiding in your barn. We don't mean to make fun, but sometimes it's so outrageous you just have to laugh. So if you're triggered by any of these topics or people making light of them. You may want to skip today's episode and join us again next week. Thank you.

Carolyn Cochrane 15:46

And they go and they get, like, the straight razor out of the medicine cabinet, and then they're like, almost like little dwarfs are like, holding down their shoulders, like they're gonna, you know, March. And they're like, Should we do it now?

Unknown Speaker 15:58

It's like the borrowers. Maybe

Carolyn Cochrane 15:59

it is because, like the borrower's gone mad, wanting to murder people.

Unknown Speaker 16:07

Hello World, singing, come on, get happy. A whole lot of love is

Unknown Speaker 16:17

what we'll be bringing.

Unknown Speaker 16:19

We'll make you happy.

Carolyn Cochrane 16:22

Welcome to the pop culture Preservation Society, the podcast for people born in the big wheel generation who walked home from school or rode the bus because there was no such thing as getting picked up at school unless you were going to the dentist.

Michelle Newman 16:39

We believe our Gen X childhoods gave us unforgettable songs, stories, characters and images, and if we don't talk about them, they'll disappear, like Marshall will and Holly on a routine expedition. And

Kristin Nilsen 16:50

today, we will be saving the made for TV movie in a special two part episode devoted to this very special art form that was low on budget but high on love triangles, deadly diseases, killer bees and lots and lots of hostages.

Carolyn Cochrane 17:06

Hi, I'm Carolyn.

Kristin Nilsen 17:07

I'm Kristen,

Michelle Newman 17:08

and I'm Michelle, and we are your pop culture preservationists.

Kristin Nilsen 17:21

In the early 1960s television networks began showing what were called Made for TV movies to encourage audiences to stay home with their TVs.

Unknown Speaker 17:29

Shut up.

Unknown Speaker 17:30

Okay, I'm gonna do

Kristin Nilsen 17:32

that. I was like standing on the wrong foot or something.

Michelle Newman 17:37

Back it up. Okay. Got great hair today, though.

Kristin Nilsen 17:40

Thank you. It's untamed in any way, shape or form, and you probably

Michelle Newman 17:45

didn't even spray a ton of like volumizer in it, did you? No,

Kristin Nilsen 17:49

it's just like I but I did. I don't usually blow dry my hair, so that's why it's a little puffier than normal. But you know, this is my mom used to say, I look like the wild woman of Borneo. I love it. So this is my Borneo here. That's better

Carolyn Cochrane 18:03

than something the cat drug in. That's what my mom Oh,

Kristin Nilsen 18:11

okay, here we go. You

in the early 1960s television networks began showing what were called Made for TV movies to encourage audiences to stay home with their TVs on instead of going to the theater and turning their TVs off. They had already been rebroadcasting theatrical releases with a lot of success, and when a shortage of movie studio products slowed down their stream of rebroadcasts, networks were forced to make their own Feature films made specifically for the small screen, and the made for TV movie was born. So these TV movies were often made quickly, without a lot of money, because there isn't much money to be made from a made for TV movie beyond getting people to stay home and keep their eyeballs on your station. Whereas a theatrical film can make money from ticket sales or rebroadcast on TV, most television films lacked those revenue streams, and the films are seldom rerun, so they had to be made cheaply, because if your family is sitting down in the living room watching replacing dad. That's a movie I came across this week, replacing dad that would translate to multiple ticket sales for a theatrical release, but it only gets counted as one household in the world of TV, so big budgets were out of the question.

Carolyn Cochrane 19:34

Yeah, there was also an economical way to produce a pilot for a show. You could test the waters with a TV movie, and even if the show didn't get picked up, you could still air the movie, and you had two hours of air time for your show. So I was really amazed to find out some of my favorite shows during the 70s had actually been piloted as TV movies. We have Little House on the Prairie. And you might remember movie, yeah,

Michelle Newman 20:04

the pilot was a movie, and that's Karen grassley's favorite episode, even though it's not technically episode

Kristin Nilsen 20:11

when they're moving when they're moving to and

Michelle Newman 20:14

we know it's Karen grassley's favorite why? Because she told us I thought

Kristin Nilsen 20:20

it was like, there's a naked man in it or something. No,

Michelle Newman 20:22

because she told us herself it was her favorite. But she did. We talked to her, yeah, that's right. Well,

Carolyn Cochrane 20:27

yeah, so. And then my other favorite family drama that competes with the Ingles would be the Waltons, and that was also a TV movie that was called the homecoming and that starred Patricia Neal. So sometimes the pilots had the original the cast members that would then go on and create those characters in the actual TV shows. Sometimes there be a little change up. And in that case, Patricia Neal was the mother in homecoming. But then Michael learned it became the mother and the Walter. And

Kristin Nilsen 20:57

coincidentally, the Homecoming is the show that Karen Grassley watch to prepare, prepare for her audition for a Little House on the Prairie.

Michelle Newman 21:05

Mind Blown

Kristin Nilsen 21:07

because she told us,

Michelle Newman 21:10

I'm still chuckling inside it, Kristen going, I don't know, because there is a naked man

Carolyn Cochrane 21:17

in it on network TV in the 1970s so they just had naked men running around. Well, there was

Kristin Nilsen 21:21

the guy that bathed in the creek, Gil Gerard, so that's, you know, for him,

Carolyn Cochrane 21:28

Ma, Dad was ready for a few more. $6 million Man was one, as was the bionic woman. Oh yeah, police woman was one. Charlie's Angels was one. Basically, I want to say all about all of me. Yeah, drama, hour long drama series that you that we watched in the 70s and probably early 80s, started as a pilot, which was very clever, in my opinion, because they only had to film one this two hour movie. Because now, you know, sometimes, for some of these sitcoms, especially, they'll do the pilot and then they'll do like, four or five episodes, in case the pilot gets picked up. And that's costly, I would think so you and then sometimes they never see the light of day. So this was a really economical way to get a feel for how the show might might play with people. Do you guys have any that you know of or think of?

Michelle Newman 22:20

Yeah, I was thinking from a previous episode that we did wasn't The Love Boat one,

Kristin Nilsen 22:25

I believe, yes, yes, yeah. I

Michelle Newman 22:27

think one of, I think Carolyn, you might have even mentioned, I don't know, maybe it

Carolyn Cochrane 22:31

was me. Maybe even had two before it actually became a regular series. And then lots of times we would have after a series was over, or even when it was actually playing and current they would actually do a movie. So you would still get a two hour Love Boat movie another night of the week. Or we have our favorite reunion specials of a lot of TV shows that became two hour movies. Some of the Brady Bunch ones did Love Boat did Eight is Enough? Did Little House on the Prairie they all go on kind of another way to kind of capture that audience that loved them so much that was the

Michelle Newman 23:07

best. Yeah, and when I was doing my research for this episode, I learned that James at 15 was the movie. Oh,

oh, didn't then, didn't he turn 16 after he

Carolyn Cochrane 23:31

after? Yeah, oh, is

Michelle Newman 23:32

that what happened? Yes, yeah.

Carolyn Cochrane 23:34

It started as James at 15 for, I don't know, maybe the first season or something, because I'll never forget. I have a whole memory of this. When my mom actually let me watch it. She had to talk to me about what James at 16 episode was going to be about, and I got to watch it in her bedroom on a little black and white TV. And then the way the entrant or the credits and the beginning of the show were, it showed the same James at 15, the same kind of thing it had always shown. And then a little it crossed out the 15, and it wrote, and they put 16 in the corner.

Michelle Newman 24:05

I believe it wasn't that whole show only on for, like, I don't know, 17 episodes or something too. Like, it was a high season, and I was there for everyone.

Kristin Nilsen 24:12

I was too.

Carolyn Cochrane 24:14

It seems like a big part of my sense. Oh, he

Michelle Newman 24:17

was over Tiger Beat during that time.

Kristin Nilsen 24:20

He was Lance Kerwin.

Carolyn Cochrane 24:21

Oh yeah, he's in one of my favorite TV movies we'll talk about later. So what

Kristin Nilsen 24:25

this means, because we can't stop talking about James at 15 in our made for TV movie episode, what this means is that we have to do an episode on James at 15. Okay, so stay tuned. Stay in. Okay. So as we said, TV movies generally didn't have big budgets. But even though big budgets were out of the question, there were still some made for TV movies that were considered really good, even though they were low budget affairs. The TV movie that is often cited as the best of all time, not just the Gen X era, but of all time of all the TV movies, is a movie called dual and this was mentioned by a lot of our followers. I. When we asked them for their favorite TV movies. And this is about a businessman commuting to work who's terrorized and harassed by a big rig style tractor trailer truck for two hours in prime time. And it was the directorial debut of a fresh young upstart named Steven Spielberg, really Yes, yes. And he used this movie, duel as his audition tape, essentially, for the job of directing jaws. And it's the same movie. It's the same movie. And even Steven Spielberg says there's a real connection between duel and jaws, because it's about a leviathan versus the every man. I mean, that's all that Jaws is. And if you watch them side by side, you'll see he draws the tension exactly the same way. Wow. Monster, every man.

Carolyn Cochrane 25:49

It makes total sense. Have you? Have both of you seen duel? No, no, I've never seen it. Oh, I've seen it several times. It's it's good. And when you said, when you just read the, you know, tagline, or whatever the description of the movie, it doesn't sound like you could be absorbed for two hours, especially when one of the main characters isn't even a human. Really. It's this is a truck, but oh my gosh, it is the most evil truck. Literally, you're on the edge of your seat. I know it sounds ridiculous, but Steven Spielberg pulled it off. And, yeah, I could now totally see the jaws connection, but it's, you need to watch it. And I think your husbands would enjoy it too. Okay, I feel like

Michelle Newman 26:27

this troll episode is, like, sponsored by the more you know, because a little shooting rainbow, because I'm going to be, I'm going to learn so much, and I'm going to, at the end of this episode, have the longest list of movies I need to go find it's true, starting with dual,

Carolyn Cochrane 26:44

I promise you both will. Okay,

Kristin Nilsen 26:46

so dual was made for about $450,000 and with, you know, in the hands of the right director, he was able to make that into historic release, a historic piece of film. Film is it is still film, if it's on TV, whatever. Okay, so how do you how do you cheap out on a TV movie production? You know, Steven Spielberg did it by just having a truck and a car as characters, essentially. But what you can do is, you have a small crew, you have limited cast members and sets. Maybe you have an under developed script, but you can also use musical montages full of cut footage flashback sequences, or you can repeat footage. They did that all the time. They would use the same footage they used in the beginning of the film, and they would have extended periods of dramatic slow motion footage. All of this takes up time that you don't have to pay for, and there are certainly no special effects. And also you might hire a young upstart director with no experience named Steven Spielberg, who is probably like, you know, I get $15 an hour. Oftentimes, these made for TV movies could just feel like drawn out episodes of a prime time drama series, unless, of course, you juice things up with a train wreck of a topic, something so outrageous that people can't look away, like

Michelle Newman 28:08

Edith bunker in a love triangle in the 1981 classic Isabel's choice. She's torn between the man who loves her and the man who needs her. It's the toughest choice a woman can make and she's loving every minute of it. Edith, you're naughty. Minks, oh my gosh, Michelle, you need to read all of these little let's not forget, like you guys, this isn't young Jean Stapleton, this is 1981 this is Edith, Bunk. Yeah,

Carolyn Cochrane 28:42

big time. Edith, she's been around a while. By 1981 you go, Yeah, whoa. Or the drama suite, hostage, starring Linda Blair. It's an about an escaped psychopath and the illiterate farm girl he drags to a deserted cabin to become her teacher, friend and lover, yikes. Oh, I don't think I was allowed to watch that. Here's

Kristin Nilsen 29:08

Carolyn's worst nightmare, or trapped, a 1973 movie starring James Brolin as a man mugged in a department store who awakens to find he's been locked in overnight and then is attacked by a security dog. Oh, my God.

Michelle Newman 29:22

Seriously, that is Carolyn. If you guys listen to Carolyn's worst nightmare episode, that's Carolyn's worst nightmare. It is.

Carolyn Cochrane 29:31

But when I read that in my research that description, I thought, how on earth do you make that a two hour movie and he gets attacked by dogs? I mean, gosh, and I guess that was low budget too, if it's just James Brolin and some dogs, one

Kristin Nilsen 29:44

guy. And, I mean, the dogs are probably cheap, cheap, right?

Michelle Newman 29:47

Well, all they have to do is just run at the camera, bearing their teeth, and they just use that footage over and over and over. You

Kristin Nilsen 29:55

don't have dog teeth? No, yeah, you just use the same footage snarling dogs. Oh. My

Carolyn Cochrane 30:00

God, my gosh,

Kristin Nilsen 30:01

so often TV movies were also made to cash in on salacious stories in the news, like casualties of love, the Long Island Lolita story starring Alyssa Milano as Amy Fisher, the teenager who shot Joey but a few goes wife in the face on her own doorstep. A movie that I love this so much, a movie that one reviewer said, feels not unlike a very special episode of Beverly Hills, 90210.

Michelle Newman 30:23

I remember that one. I remember that was like when we were adults, though that movie, yeah. But I was all in to watch that movie, yeah,

Kristin Nilsen 30:30

yeah, man. So this is where we get a lot of the true crime style movies, like small like small sacrifices, which is about a woman on trial for the attempted murder of her own children, or the burning bed, which we will talk about in a little bit. Both of these, by the way, starring Farrah Fawcett tonight,

Speaker 1 30:51

I Francine, take thee Mickey to be my husband, to have it to hold for richer or

Speaker 2 30:57

poorer, Farrah Fawcett in a powerful drama torn from today's headlines based on a true story of a woman trapped in a brutal and violent marriage until the night she struck back.

Kristin Nilsen 31:07

There is no doubt that some of these movies were memorable. No matter what you say about good or bad or high quality or B movie, we remember them?

Michelle Newman 31:21

Yeah, I remember some of them. My most memorable actually made our countdown, so I'm going to hold off on those. But do you guys remember the 1983 movie called Thursday's Child? Is that ringing any bells with you? I don't remember this. Okay, Thursday's Child. Here's who It starred. It starred, I'm gonna save the best for last. It starred Gina Rowlands, Tracy gold, Jessica Walters, you know, Lucille Bluth, Jessica Walters, and it starred Rob Lowe. And you guys, I feel like this might be the movie where Rob Lowe first came on my radar. It's the one he plays Sam, who's a football player who discovers he has a heart condition and needs a heart transplant. And that's kind of the whole story. That's the nutshell. But you know, we talked and those of you listening, we did a whole episode on after school specials, and then we did a separate episode. The whole episode is about the blockbuster 1980 Rob Lowe vehicle school boy father, which was his first appearance on TV. So he had done school boy father in 1980 but Thursday's Child was to be Rob Lowe's first film role for and it was slated for 1982 but it actually got bumped to 1983 so it came out the same year the outsiders came out. And Thursday's travel actually was really well received. It was nominated for two Golden Globes and Rob Lowe, and you know, his first, his first appearance on film, Rob Lowe was nominated in the category of Best Performance by an Actor in a Supporting Role in a series, mini series or motion picture made for TV. Yeah. Oh my god. And

Kristin Nilsen 33:01

how old would he have been then? Like, 16. He's really young. Gosh,

Michelle Newman 33:04

I would have to look that up. But yeah. And then Gina Rowlands in the movie, she plays his mom, she was nominated for Best Performance by an Actress. And God, you guys, I love Gina Rowlands, and Hope Floats. My God, with all her taxidermied animals, she's, she's, she's a treasure. So that one has stuck with me as one that when I see Thursday's Child or something, and I, I don't know if it was the story, you know, it's one of those tragic there's a lot of those where the young, yeah, the young athlete, or the young teens get sick or whatever, yeah, and he had, has to have, you know, and he's trying not to cough, and he's trying to act like he's okay, because he doesn't want to worry his parents, and he ends up having

Kristin Nilsen 33:46

to have a heart transplant. As a tear jerker, yeah, it was a 1980s

Michelle Newman 33:50

memorable for me, like, that's one that is, that was

Kristin Nilsen 33:53

probably a coming of age moment for you. Maybe,

Michelle Newman 33:56

I mean, well, surely, because I was like, Well, hello. Rob Lowe, so I guess we can define coming of age differently, but sure, let's say, Yeah,

Kristin Nilsen 34:03

I have a very I have a lot that I remember, but there is one very distinct memory about a movie called leave yesterday behind, starring John Ritter as a young veterinary student who is paralyzed while he's playing polo, and Carrie Fisher, yes, And Carrie Fisher as his horse trainer slash love interest, who's trying to help him rehab him from his disability. And there were some it's not the big moments that I remember, it's small moments that I remember. For instance, when Carrie Fisher puts him in the pool is and is trying to teach him to swim, and John Ritter's in the pool and he can't use his legs, and I'm like John radar, be careful

Carolyn Cochrane 34:43

not throw him. He's trying to show him he can do it. So

Michelle Newman 34:46

he's gonna be

Kristin Nilsen 34:47

scared. Yes, it was terrifying. I remember,

Carolyn Cochrane 34:51

this is more whiplash. Yes, this episode might not I'm gonna go the chiropractor. It has just been crazy. Yeah, it

Kristin Nilsen 34:59

was so. Frightening watching him thinking he's drowning and he can't you. I mean, that's acting people don't use your legs. John Ritter, and it was really terrifying for me. But the worst part of, or maybe it's the worst, the most memorable, I don't know, the worst part, is this very melodramatic moment where John Ritter and his horse trainer slash love interest. He's He's confessing to her because now they're in love. And he's like,

Carolyn Cochrane 35:22

I don't know

Kristin Nilsen 35:24

if I can make love. And I am mortified because I'm watching this with my grandma. I'm like, Oh, God, oh. I mean, she was probably just like, knitting an Afghan anyway, and probably didn't even hear it. But the mortification of the moment was enough to make me remember it to this day.

Carolyn Cochrane 35:43

Oh my gosh. I

Michelle Newman 35:44

have a question. Remember that now I have a question. I wonder if you guys can answer. So Kristen, you said earlier that it was, you know, one of the draws of these movies is that they could make them for less money. They didn't have to have the big budget. But it really seems like they have really good stars in all of these. I mean, in the one you just said, I mean, this is John what, what year was the one you just this

Kristin Nilsen 36:08

was 1979 is it okay? So we're post 79 so he's,

Michelle Newman 36:13

he's big time. He

Kristin Nilsen 36:15

is John Ritter, yeah, well, right, and Carrie Fisher. I

Michelle Newman 36:19

mean, Star Wars was 78 so Carrie Fisher is huge 77 but still 77 right? And I just know the

Kristin Nilsen 36:25

Star Wars people get super pissed, if I

Michelle Newman 36:29

like, yeah. And I you know, in all of these other ones we're about to talk about, I mean, they're blockbuster casts, they're all, they're all either current or very recent, like TV stars, or they're in movies. So I guess that's my question. Then, you know, instead of hiring a lot of unknowns, they're actually still hiring I wonder. I just wonder, if they

Kristin Nilsen 36:51

didn't like, Where does the budget go? We only have $450,000 let's reserve 200 of it for Carrie Fisher and John Ritter, and then we'll use a bunch of recycled footage, right? Because then they can get our eyes, yeah.

Michelle Newman 37:02

And you have to think too that for the stars. I mean, this is good business for them as well, because then they're also, you know, John Ritter's able now to be a paralyzed former polo player instead of Jack tripper. So it's good for them too, to show their diversity as actors and all this stuff. So maybe they didn't demand the high salaries that we're used to hearing stars currently

Kristin Nilsen 37:24

good to do. Remember projects? Yeah. Do you remember what Karen Grassley said in her book that she was trying to do a made for TV movie. Was this one she wanted to do battered, or maybe it was a different one, I can't remember. And Michael Landon would not let her set to make this made for TV movie. And just like you said, Michelle, it was an important thing for her, because it was a personal topic, but because it would get her out of the prairie skirts Exactly. And she needed people to see her out of prairie skirts. And Michael and said, No, right?

Carolyn Cochrane 37:50

I think that's totally what it is. It was an opportunity for a lot of these stars to show their acting chops out of this character that we've become. You know, we have come to know them by and, yeah, yeah, they're probably willing to do it for less. It was a win, win. And then right movie could be marketed as, you know, Star Wars, Fisher and three, Oh, yeah. And

Michelle Newman 38:10

it was just showing up increasing visibility was, yeah, it was smart for them to Carolyn,

Kristin Nilsen 38:17

did you have any

Carolyn Cochrane 38:19

Yeah? That I wanted to chat about was it's called, don't be afraid of the dark, 1973 but I watched it later, and I remember my mom telling me she couldn't she had watched it in 1973 and she said, It's so scary, I don't think you should watch it. I can't even watch it again. It's that scary. And I was like, Oh, of course, I can watch it. Okay. So it stars Kim Darby, Jim Hutton, who is Timothy Hutton's dad, and you totally recognize him, if you saw them, saw this movie or any of his other movies. I don't recognize any of the other names in it, so I'm not gonna say them. Oh, except for William Demarest, who I think isn't that

Kristin Nilsen 38:54

Fred. That's Fred. Yeah, so Fred is

Carolyn Cochrane 38:58

in it, and maybe that was the big name that drew everybody, James Frawley.

Michelle Newman 39:04

No. Fred is from William Frawley is

Kristin Nilsen 39:11

my Charlie? Yes, yes, the same person.

Carolyn Cochrane 39:15

Yes. Thank you very much. Kristen, okay, so yes, so Uncle Charlie, isn't it? And that's a little odd. You're not used to seeing him in this movie, which is about a young couple who inherits this strange home that is occupied by these small goblin like creatures. They're like human. You should see our faces right now. We're like goblin looking and they talk with these really weird little voices God, and they want to murder Kim Darby, but and no one believes her that they're in there. And the scary scene, she's in the shower, and they climb up and they turn the lights off, they climb out of the wall. Do they need humans? Yes, but, Oh, honey, like humans? This is horrible. And they go, and they get, like the straight razor out of the medicine cabinet. And then they're like, almost like little dwarfs. They're like, holding down their shoulders, like they're gonna, you know, March. And they're like, Should we do it now?

Unknown Speaker 40:07

It's like the borrowers. Maybe it is.

Carolyn Cochrane 40:09

It's like the borrowers gone mad, wanting to murder people. And no one believes Kim Darby that this is happening, and they think she's going crazy, and they're gaslighting her everywhere. And they're so creepy, and they come out the fireplace, and there's a bunch of them, and they're just

Kristin Nilsen 40:24

your voice is so funny right now.

Unknown Speaker 40:26

Watch the movie gobbling

Carolyn Cochrane 40:27

voice. It's my Goblin voice, but it's what they sound like, and they like have this whole plot as to how they're gonna kill her. Oh my gosh, you guys, it's still scary to this day. I mean, I've only was able to see clips because I can't find it anywhere, and it's kind of like a cult classic. So if anyone knows where I can watch the whole thing, please let me know. But I was able to watch the shower scene where they turn she doesn't know the lights are out yet because she's washing her hair and her eyes are closed, and they're in there, and they're talking very quickly, and they talk really fast. And so anyway, that would be the 1973 thriller. Don't be afraid of the dark.

Kristin Nilsen 41:02

I would not be watching that alone.

Michelle Newman 41:05

You guys. Let's write one. Let's write a made for TV movie that would be fun. It

Kristin Nilsen 41:08

sounds like we can it sounds like something that's beyond us at

Michelle Newman 41:12

all. Anything goes.

Kristin Nilsen 41:13

When you hear some of some of the the storylines that we're going to tell you, you'd be like, Yeah, I think I can do that. I was always a fan of the celebrity bio made for TV movie, a huge fan, because I had a fascination with old Hollywood when I was a kid. And I had this book that had short little bios of all sorts of old film stars. What I came to find out later is that those short little BIOS were actually obituaries. I had a book.

Michelle Newman 41:38

Are you telling us about that? Yeah, I had no

Kristin Nilsen 41:41

idea. Like, oh, these little biographies. I love them so much. So when the Jane Mansfield story aired on the CBS Wednesday night movie in 1980 I was all in because I already knew all about Jane Mansfield. She, if you don't know who Jane Mansfield is, she's sort of like a second banana to Marilyn Monroe. She was really trying to fill those shoes. And this is IMDb describes the Jane Mansfield story like this, the gaudy rise and Dizzy fall of the last great Hollywood blonde bombshell starring Lonnie Anderson as Jane Mansfield and Arnold Schwarzenegger as her bodybuilder husband, Mickey Hargitay. And correct me if I'm wrong, isn't Mariska Hargitay from what's that show,

Carolyn Cochrane 42:21

Mom,

Kristin Nilsen 42:22

it's her mom and dad. Yeah, exactly. Carolyn Schwarzenegger and Lonnie Anderson are her parents. And there are real they're oftentimes a very shocking aspects to TV movies. And the reason that this one is so memorable for me is because of how Jane Mansfield died, and the movie opens with her death, which is sitting in the back seat of a car with her children next to her, and they're and it's night time, and you see these headlines and you hear horns honking and the car crash, but what I know from reading my book of obituaries is that Jane Mansfield was decapitated. Oh, and so I know, I know. And so I'm, as a 12 year old going, I know that this happened, and now I'm watching this on TV, and I'm trying to figure out the logistics of how she was decapitated in don't anyone send this to Mariska? Hard to take. Well,

Michelle Newman 43:13

wait, was she one of the children sitting with her in the back? I'm trying to find out, and

Kristin Nilsen 43:17

I cannot. Well, she must have been, because her mother died. So that wouldn't be your mom if, oh, but she could have been at home. Okay, never, right. There could be. I don't have any children Jane Mansfield, but I've been a little obsessed to find out if Mariska Hargitay was one of those children in the back seat. And I pray to God that she has had monumental amounts of therapy, because that scene has haunted me since 1980

Michelle Newman 43:40

Well, if she was, she probably has, because she is married to my like, number one Hall Pass, Peter Hermann, and they have a wonderful family, and they have like, three or four children, some of them they've adopted, and they have a really telling me she's okay. She seems okay. Yeah, I can't say for certain, she seems okay, but you know what? So do I Good point?

Carolyn Cochrane 44:03

I'm thinking, based on that the themes and subjects of the show she's in now, she'd almost have to have a therapist just to

Kristin Nilsen 44:12

plot like they should provide

Michelle Newman 44:16

recipes on that show for like, 49 years. So, yeah, that's

Kristin Nilsen 44:20

why I don't watch the show, like, because I don't have a full time therapist. No,

Michelle Newman 44:23

I can't watch those types of shows. Yeah, another one that is like that is starts with the death is the Karen Carpenter story from 1989 and if you all listened just recently to our carpenters Episode Part One, we talked about this. This one came up a lot because I did, we used it on our research, even though we, you know, we weren't positive how accurate it was. We felt that Richard carpenter produced it. So there had to have been some accuracies in it, if not most of at least the details. The tagline for this, in the advertisement was she had. Only just begun, and suddenly her world was falling apart. This also has the classic over the top, made for TV, movie opening sequence rainy days and Mondays plays over the opening in when they find her body, what I've got, they used to call the blues. Sometimes I'd like to quit. Nothing average

Carolyn Cochrane 45:20

seems to fit hanging around.

Speaker 3 45:27

Nothing to do but rainy days and wonders always get me

Carolyn Cochrane 45:34

gosh that even, yeah, it's

Michelle Newman 45:36

horrible. Hello, metaphor, right? And think about how many times she's saying those words, yeah. So you know, she's in the hospital, then the ambulance comes and picks her up. The part that's heartbreaking is when Richard screeches into the driveway as the ambulance is pulling away, and he gets out of the car, like, what's going on? What's going on? But once in the hospital, she seems to rise from the gurney, and she starts roller skating around the hospital, so there's almost as she's dying, yeah, this is very melodramatic, and then suddenly she's a teenager, and it becomes a flashback to her childhood, and that's when, that's when the movie begins

Kristin Nilsen 46:14

and playing the whole time.

Michelle Newman 46:17

Yeah, and it's very dramatic and over the top, but you know what it works? I mean, it gets you in that kind of, that mood of that real melancholy, and then the connecting the present day to the past and the it's the same person is basically what I'm seeing, right? Like, well, and

Kristin Nilsen 46:31

it makes me wonder if, just because we've talked about two movies that opened with the death of their person, their dramatic I wonder if that is a trope that they use for made for TV movies.

Michelle Newman 46:40

Good point, good question. Start

Kristin Nilsen 46:43

with the deaf. I mean, just the she walks like they find her body. That's the opening scene, finding her dead body that you just hear

Michelle Newman 46:50

the scream. You hear the scream of, I think it's her mom. So you guys, we had lots of feedback on Instagram and Facebook about people's memories of TV movies, and a lot of people shared some fun stories, but there was one I felt that truly exemplified the importance these movies could play in your life. So this comes from Dina. Dina is our good friend on Instagram. She's at 30 cats. She's a great supporter of the PCPs and engages with us a lot. She said that the movie, Alex, the life of a child, kind of prompted her not kind of it actually prompted her to volunteer at a cystic fibrosis camp, which led to her meeting her husband. Oh, wow. So that one movie, she says, literally played a huge part in my life. So it's like all thanks to the movie Alex, the life of a child that that led to, you know, her marriage

Kristin Nilsen 47:51

disease of the week movie, it

Michelle Newman 47:53

was. But I also would like to say it also did, besides that being good, Dena, we also would like to applaud you for volunteering. Because that was another good thing that came out of forgot

Kristin Nilsen 48:09

about that part. Okay, so let's go back to the concept of quality. Again. We mentioned that oftentimes these were low budget productions with kind of B movie status. Not all of them, I mean, some of them, like we said, are star studded affairs with Emmy nominations and stuff like that. But in the case of Made for TV movies, quality can take on a different meeting meaning, because it could be that it's the lack of quality that is exactly what makes it unforgettable. And when you read the descriptions of some of these movies, it reads like pure comedy.

Michelle Newman 48:38

Yeah, it to me, I feel like the titles and the taglines in the advertisements of these made for TV movies are basically after school specials, PM, like at night. And you guys, I was looking for these. I could have kept going forever. For those of you listening, just do a Google search for made for TV movie advertisements like their TV ad, their TV Guide ads, and you'll have like a solid hour of quality entertainment. So here are just some of my favorites that I found in love with. The sun, betrothed to the Father. This is the 1981 movie, child bride of short Creek, starring Diane Lane as the girl, a young 1981 Christopher Atkins, hot off Blue Lagoon as the sun and you guys, the father that little young Diane Lane has betrothed to Conrad Bain, no. Mr. Drummond,

Kristin Nilsen 49:35

yeah. Wait, wait, Diane Lane would have been like 13. Mr. Drummond, right,

Michelle Newman 49:40

because it's child bride of short Oh, child, right? It says the longer tagline says, For generations, their beliefs allowed the elders to take as many wives as they wanted, until a young girl is promised to the father of the boys she loves. So you know, you got Diane Lane and Christopher Atkins. That's cute, but then you've got Mr. Drummond. He always creeped me out. Anyway, I'm just. Going to say, I don't know why.

Kristin Nilsen 50:01

It's a very monochromatic color palette. He's got

Michelle Newman 50:05

turkey waddle, though he had like kind of that long neck. Did turkey? This is a good one too. She's 40 and in love again. Stay with me now. He's 20, and her best friend's son and her son's best friend.

Speaker 3 50:21

Suddenly she felt alive again, and he was the reason. So who is he? There was only one problem.

Unknown Speaker 50:29

He's young. What? And his

Speaker 3 50:31

mother was her best friend, Eddie. She is my age.

Kristin Nilsen 50:36

Why can't I have one thing that makes me happy?

Speaker 3 50:39

Dak was a younger man. What price would she pay for love? The Anatomy of a seduction. Oh, oops. Anatomy of seduction.

Carolyn Cochrane 50:50

I wanted to add in my little tagline, which I think I found from the thing you said I sent us Kristen, but it said a 1979 romantic sober about a frosty divorce, A's affair with her bosom buddies, college age son, who is her, also her son's best friend. And I wanted to know what is a frosty divorce? Say,

Michelle Newman 51:09

yeah, what is that? I was trying to as you said, I was like, I think, like, hack Cougar. Like, yeah, it should be frosty. Sounds like she was cold. I'm thinking it means, like,

Kristin Nilsen 51:19

salty about something. Like, yes.

Carolyn Cochrane 51:21

Anyway, frosty, frosty.

Michelle Newman 51:22

I get a negative connotation from you too, please. But anyway, about this? What I liked about this is that Rita Moreno plays the best friend, but in the in the ad, the advertisement the boy, it's kind of a drawing, but it's a drawing of the two actresses. The boy is sucking on her fingers. Yep. No, look it up. Okay, here's another one. Althea is 40, separated, ready for a new life with a new man. Only one thing stands in her way her teenage daughter. It's called like mom like me, starring Linda Lavin and Christy McNichol. I started watching this one on YouTube 1978 Christine McNichol, we love her. We adore her. I actually want to finish this one. I just ran out of time like mom like me, because that's a good cast, Linda Lavin and Christy McNichol. Now another Christie McNichol gem, two years later, but this one is also starring James Vincent McNichol, which is what it says. James Vincent, he wanted to this one's called blinded by the light, and it says her brother disappeared in a world of brainwasher brainwashers and blackmailers. It will take all her love to get to him and all her strength to get him out.

Kristin Nilsen 52:37

I think

Carolyn Cochrane 52:38

I saw that. Oh, did you? I

Kristin Nilsen 52:39

think I saw

Michelle Newman 52:41

that, right?

Unknown Speaker 52:44

On her okay?

Michelle Newman 52:45

I like this one. She put on a uniform and risked her life, but when she took it off, she risked everything. Police Woman centerfold. You thought I just meant when she took off her uniform and put on like her regular clothes, right? She put on a uniform and risked her life, but when she took it off, she risked everything. Police Woman centerfold in 1983 okay, I like this one. Carolyn talked a little bit about sweet hostage. Didn't you just talk about sweet hostage, starring Linda Blair and Martin Sheen from 1975 just the little short tagline and the advertisement and the TV guys, when, when he captured a girl, he unleashed a woman. Oh, they're all nasty, and then they're

Kristin Nilsen 53:36

supposed to fall in love or something in the bar.

Michelle Newman 53:39

I know, okay, I feel like this might be the best one from 1977 the tagline says it's the it's the title that's going to get you. But the tagline says to hide her sexuality, she must plead guilty to murder, and the title is, it's a real long one. So stay with me. Okay, in the glitter palace where the gay people meet.

Kristin Nilsen 54:01

Wait, that sounds like something that would be in a hoochie house. ABC, Wednesday night movie,

Michelle Newman 54:06

yeah, dash, where the gay people meet. And then I just thought this was funny. There was one I saw called Glitz with Jimmy Smits and marquee post, and the tagline just said, sleazy, does it?

Kristin Nilsen 54:22

I so when we asked our followers which TV movies they remembered multiple people mentioned kiss meets the Phantom of the park. I can't believe I didn't see this. I cannot believe I didn't see this. It's a 1978 TV movie starring the band Kiss and produced by Hanna Barbera, like tell me, okay, let me just listen to this. Tell me if this sounds like an episode of Scooby Doo so the movie's plot revolves around kiss who use their superpowers to battle an evil inventor to see the save a California amusement park from destruction.

Carolyn Cochrane 54:56

Is it an animated movie? No, it's just a movie. Gene Simmons is running around some amusement park trying to

Michelle Newman 55:04

Scooby Doo and then there's like someone chasing him, and then he takes his mask off. You know what? I'm just I'm shocked that they agreed to do that, and then I'm also because they were also on Love Boat, which seems very white bread for them to be doing stuff like this. But again, maybe it's, like we said before, that's just the visibility of we want to get our name out there.

Kristin Nilsen 55:24

I don't know well, and part of it is, seemed like a good idea at the time, because the members of Kiss actually despised the film after the fact, because it made them look so buffoonish, they looked like fools. And for years, yeah, they

Carolyn Cochrane 55:36

looked like fools. Imagine me some hard hitting crime drama. Yeah. Like,

Kristin Nilsen 55:40

imagine running in those boots through the park, right? The glittery platforms. You're not going to look cool doing that, you're just not and for years afterwards, they would forbid anyone from mentioning the movie in their presence, because they were so mortified by it.

Michelle Newman 55:59

Okay, that's funny, but it is true. Like, what did they think it was going to be? First of all, two words, Hanna Barbera, or is that one?

Carolyn Cochrane 56:09

No amusement park. There are a lot of red flags,

Kristin Nilsen 56:13

meddling kids, you young whippersnappers. Oh, my God. So we actually have some society members who have a podcast of their own devoted entirely to reviewing movies from the golden era of TV movies, the 70s and the 80s and the 90s. And it is called the made for TV movie club. So we asked Beth and Kirsten, our knowledgeable podcast hosts, what their most memorable TV movies were. And here's what they said,

Speaker 4 56:39

Hi, ladies, it's Beth and Kirsten from the made for TV movie club podcast.

Speaker 5 56:46

So Beth, we've been asked what is our favorite all time, made for TV movie, and I feel like there's sort of this before and after. In my mind. I agree. So before we started doing the podcast, and now that we've started doing the podcast and had the chance to review these movies. So I would say, from my memories, that my favorite movies were the house without a Christmas tree and the movie we haven't done yet. No, but I do want to do, I know, you know, I don't want it's called, it's a girl called sooner, both of which are pretty darn depressing and dark, yes, but, but you know that that's kind of where I like to live, yeah. So now that we have gotten to review some more movies, the most enjoyable movie that I have seen so far is definitely Trilogy of Terror. You like that? I love it. Love it, love it.

Speaker 4 57:39

I like that one too. But I will say, I think before we started the podcast, I liked in broad daylight, but we just reviewed the burning bed star, starring Farrah Fawcett, and I think the writing is so tight, the acting is phenomenal. Every single actor in that movie. It's a great TV movie. And I'm gonna say that that is probably my very, Favorite TV movie now after starting the podcast. So

Kristin Nilsen 58:03

the house without a Christmas tree, is a movie we talked about in one of our very first episodes. Was it episode

Michelle Newman 58:08

two? It is, I went back and double checked that. And this

Kristin Nilsen 58:12

is one of the many holiday made for TV movies, and it really is one of the best. It aired in 1972 and it stars Jason Robards as a grumpy man who hasn't had a Christmas tree since his Christmas loving wife died, much to the chagrin of his Laura Ingalls look alike daughter Addie, I seriously thought it was half pint the whole time. My mom, for sure, had this on VHS. Raise your hand if you recently moved your parents and you had to figure out what to do with all the VHS tapes and the VCR Well, there's

Carolyn Cochrane 58:41

another Christmas TV movie that came back on my radar. Do you guys remember the gift of love? This was Maria Osmond, yes, yes, her acting debut with Timothy bottoms, where they had the retelling of the O Henry story, Gift of the Magi.

Kristin Nilsen 58:58

And then they also mentioned Beth and Kirsten the burning bed. Yes.

Carolyn Cochrane 59:02

So if you guys remember that, that is a 1984 movie starring Farrah Fawcett, which, in and of itself, might say, okay, Farah, let's, let's see what it's what it's about, you guys. This was about a woman who murdered her husband by burning him in his bed. That's the title, after she had been abused for more than 12 years. True story, you guys, this happened. It happened in Michigan. She only set the bed on fire, the whole house on fire, and then went in and turned herself in, told the police what she did, and was found not guilty when she went to trial and acquitted for that crime. Now, many people doubted that Chris Monroe, I mean, Farrah Fauci, could pull off this thing. No,

Kristin Nilsen 59:48

she's Jill. Chris is Sher lad. Oh, yeah.

Carolyn Cochrane 59:50

Okay, so many people died. Thank you. But you guys, she did. She was believable. And. And television critic Matt Seitz in his 2016 book titled TV the book praised her performance as one of the finest in the history of TV movies. Oh, really. And you think who that's up against? Yes, no

Michelle Newman 1:00:14

kidding of TV movies. It's not a real it's

Carolyn Cochrane 1:00:18

not hard as we go on. And,

Michelle Newman 1:00:21

no, she was phenomenal, phenomenal in that movie. Think

Kristin Nilsen 1:00:23

about it. We're still talking about it, right? Still talking

Michelle Newman 1:00:27

about it. I think the burning bed has become one of those kind of pop culture references, like when you say, Oh, he's going to boil my you know, don't boil my bunny. Or, you know, like traction. The burning bed is kind of one of those pop culture references that people are, one of those things people refer to well,

Carolyn Cochrane 1:00:45

and not only that, but this author, or this critic, said that the burning bed in his book, he says, is the seventh greatest American TV movie of all time. Wow. He wrote that this film was a landmark in terms of content depicting domestic violence as an unambiguous horror and a human rights violation. Well, I think

Kristin Nilsen 1:01:06

people watched it. I mean, this is brilliant casting, because people were watching it to see how Jill Monroe gave Farrah Fawcett. How could this woman that we had just thought of as a jiggle actress was gonna take on something so ugly and serious, and she nailed it totally. And it even didn't it help change laws about domestic abuse. Oh,

Carolyn Cochrane 1:01:27

it did. And it made it helped change laws. It helped bring it again, much like battered when we talked to Karen Grassley, this issue that's often, you know, kept in the shadows, not talked about it, gave us a platform to talk about it and to get some laws changed and to really bring it to the forefront. So, yeah, it was a good one.

Kristin Nilsen 1:01:47

It's a good one for her legacy. Yes, definitely, absolutely, she's got the poster, which will, you know is historic, most still to this day, the biggest selling poster of all time. And then she has the burning bed. Those are,

Michelle Newman 1:01:59

yeah, another one that Beth and Kirsten mention is Trilogy of Terror, which is from 1975 and this is one that was mentioned over and over by our followers, our society members on social media. This one clearly left a big impression. Now here's the log line, Trilogy of Terror starring Karen Black, in which Karen plays four tormented women in three short horror stories. The first Julie finds black playing a murderous English professor. The second, and admittedly weakest of the bunch, has black doubling up as mentally unhinged twin sisters. Of course, we got to have some twins in there. Yeah, and Amelia. The final entry pits black against a homicidal and totally bat shit Zuni fetish doll come to life inside her high rise apartment. I don't remember this at all,

Kristin Nilsen 1:02:50

do you guys? No,

Michelle Newman 1:02:54

I wasn't, but I'm not a whore. I'm not a scary movie, horror movie type person. I'm

Kristin Nilsen 1:02:58

a scaredy cat.

Carolyn Cochrane 1:02:59

Well, and you know, I think those the TV movies, the horror movies, those were almost scarier to me, because, as you mentioned earlier, Kristen, there weren't the special effects. They didn't have the budget for that. They really had to play on that kind of the fear factor and the what's behind the door, something that could really happen, like, there could be little goblins in your wallet. Like,

Kristin Nilsen 1:03:21

don't turn off the lights in the shower. Don't do it. Don't open that door.

Carolyn Cochrane 1:03:26

Yeah, there was another one called. And now, like, when Michael calls, do you remember this? Yes, yes, when the woman's son had died, but she's getting

Michelle Newman 1:03:36

phone calls coming from inside your house? No. Like, that's

Carolyn Cochrane 1:03:39

a different one.

Kristin Nilsen 1:03:40

I think that's called, when a stranger calls, yeah, oh

Michelle Newman 1:03:43

yeah, from inside the house. That creeps me out.

Carolyn Cochrane 1:03:46

That's scarring, another scary one. But yeah, I just something that the TV movies, to me, had a possibility of really happening. Lots of times, the scary movies at the movie theater there that's never going to happen, like the goblins, maybe not. Yeah, I don't know the God ones. Maybe they could, because they were little, just miniature humans, kind of just with weird, pointy noses.

Michelle Newman 1:04:09

Well, we don't remember. Maybe the three of us don't really remember Trilogy of Terror, but lots of people do, because Trilogy of Terror has developed a cult following over the years and earned a reputation as a cult classic, and that Zuni doll from the third segment that has been called by some as one of the scariest dolls in movie history. So I guess up against, up against up against those little Gremlins and Carolyn's movie, and also me TV even deemed Trilogy of Terror The scariest television film of all time, in 2016 Oh,

Kristin Nilsen 1:04:48

my God. Oh,

Michelle Newman 1:04:51

show listening right now we're going to post this and like, is it something we can post in stories this week? Or no? Oh, I mean. Is it too scary? Will people run?

Carolyn Cochrane 1:05:02

Oh no, but I

Michelle Newman 1:05:03

try their phone like in the lake,

Carolyn Cochrane 1:05:05

as soon as I saw it. This might even be a scene from the movie, oh my gosh, as soon as I saw it. I know the Zuni fetish doll.

Speaker 5 1:05:13

Yes, I know that doll. Oh my god, oh my god.

Michelle Newman 1:05:20

That doll like and yeah, yes, the teeth,

Carolyn Cochrane 1:05:25

they call it fetish doll. I don't know any fetish doll, but Yeah, as soon as I saw it, I reckon I saw a Trilogy of Terror. So

Kristin Nilsen 1:05:34

it turns out that the movie of the week was chock full of terrifying and disturbing content. And one movie that people have been mentioning, I swear, even before we asked about this, as if they just needed to talk about it, apropos of nothing, they're bringing this up in the comments on our social media feed. Is bad. Ronald,

Speaker 6 1:05:53

after an accidental murder, Ronald, a lonely and unpopular boy, takes refuge in a fantasy world, an existence that becomes inescapable and deadly, starring Kim Hunter, Dabney Coleman and Scott Jacoby in a compelling thriller,

Unknown Speaker 1:06:11

bad Ronald.

Kristin Nilsen 1:06:13

I had never even heard about it until our followers brought it up. It's a 1974 movie. I probably wasn't allowed to watch this a 1974 movie about a family that moves into a new house unaware that there is a secret room occupied by a psychopathic teenager who has just killed his bully. This is too scary for me. Now I'm and it's on TV.

Michelle Newman 1:06:34

He's not a ghost. He's an actual person who's hiding out there because he's just somebody. Oh, that's

Kristin Nilsen 1:06:40

frightening. And we just bought this house and we're gonna move in now there's a guy. Thanks, yeah.

Carolyn Cochrane 1:06:46

Well, when I just put it into into Google, it said people also search for, don't be afraid of the dark. That's the little goblin movie, yeah. And then I had forgotten about this one, but now I recognize the picture the little girl who lived down the lane with Jody Foster.

Michelle Newman 1:07:02

That sounds familiar? She

Kristin Nilsen 1:07:04

just who skied me.

Speaker 7 1:07:05

They called her the little girl who lives down the lane all alone in that baby house. Who was she and what was her secret?

Kristin Nilsen 1:07:20

Will you read the log line for that little girl who lived down the lane? Because I remember being afraid and I don't remember what

Carolyn Cochrane 1:07:26

it's about. Jodie Foster silhouette thing. I'll just tell you what the little blurb says. She was the own she was only a little girl. She lived in a great big house, all alone. Where is her mother? Where is her father? Where are all the people who went to visit her? Oh, what is her unspeakable secret? Everyone who knows is dead.

Unknown Speaker 1:07:52

You're good seed,

Michelle Newman 1:07:53

yeah,

Carolyn Cochrane 1:07:54

and there's, like, the thing that would have been in the TV guy

Michelle Newman 1:08:00

listening I'm going to share this week either as an Instagram post or in story somewhere, maybe in the newsletter, I don't know yet, but these TV ads, because the pictures are so funny. Okay, so. But back to this terrifying what is with? I mean, it's like the more freaky, terrifying and just disturbing, the better. Listen to this log line, Kiss the Girls and make them sigh, hunt them down and watch them die on TV. That's deadly lessons. And guess who it's starring, oh my god, Donna Reed and Larry Wilcox.

Kristin Nilsen 1:08:39

No from chips, not much, but John, and

Michelle Newman 1:08:43

that's a wonderful life honoree. Yeah,

Kristin Nilsen 1:08:47

did you know that the pop culture Preservation Society is on Patreon? Patreon allows you to support our work by becoming dues paying members of our society. We are an independent women run endeavor with a commitment to delivering the highest quality listening experience to our community, and so we've taught ourselves how to record, edit and produce a podcast in midlife, a time when most of us are asking our kids how to re gram a Tiktok so that we can deliver episodes that truly speak to you. Support from PCPs patrons means that we can devote more of our time and resources to the content, sources, equipment, software, hosting and research that you've come to depend on without worrying about how to pay the bills. So thank you. We appreciate you from the bottom of our bell bottom tarts. So many television movies released in the 1970s were also a source of controversy, in addition to being scary, there just there are some controversial topics that TV movies would tackle, such as Elizabeth Montgomery's portrayal of a rape victim in the drama a case of rape in 1974 or Linda Blair's 1974 film born innocent, or 1975 Sarah T portrait of a T. Age, alcoholic. Yeah,

Carolyn Cochrane 1:10:02

don't you think that those movies were important, like, I think those movies, again, were ones that helped us talk about topics that were previously kind of again, in the shadows, something we weren't going to talk about. This allowed it to be one, maybe fictionalized, so you could talk about it at the water cooler the next day, or your parents could sit down next to you and talk to you about the dangers of becoming a teenage alcoholic. But you could talk about those things when you think about, we just talked about battered and burning bed and movies that portrayed eating disorders and child abuse, it was they were important topics, as cheesy as maybe you know the scenery was, or who was cast in some of these roles. It was really important stuff,

Kristin Nilsen 1:10:49

and it was the impetus for a lot of them to get made. And speaking with Karen Grassley, why does she want she didn't just want a star in battered. She created battered, she wrote battered, and she tried to get battered produced in order to get people talking about this topic of domestic abuse, because nobody seemed to think it was a real thing, right? And that was her purpose in doing it. Okay? So one of our followers, when asked for her most memorable TV movie, said that one with Linda Blair, which cracked me up, because I'm like, which one? Because Linda Blair was one of the queens of Made for TV movies in the 70s, Linda and remember who Linda Blair is? She starred as Reagan in The Exorcist, right? And was actually nominated, nominated for an Academy Award, wasn't she for best actress or best it was something crazy. Don't fact check us. Here's

Michelle Newman 1:11:38

a little bit about born innocent from 1974 which was mentioned above as controversial. So it says 20th century pint sized icon Linda Blair paints a blazing on screen portrait of a teenage reform school inmate, super controversial for its depiction of female on female sexual abuse and the lesbian feminist liberation dismissed the film stating, This cracks me up, stating men rape, women don't, and regarded the film as propaganda against lesbians.

Kristin Nilsen 1:12:12

This is like, can you imagine? This is 1975 Yeah, the 7075 oh, 74

Michelle Newman 1:12:16

I'm sorry, no, 74

Kristin Nilsen 1:12:18

it's just crazy. Yeah. I mean, they wouldn't, I'm pretty sure that would not make it to TV today. That would never make it some. I mean,

Carolyn Cochrane 1:12:24

it certainly wouldn't make it on network TV. I could see something on some of our other state, you know, right, Netflix or Hulu, but yeah, a lot of these topics, it's amazing that they did make it on TV.

Kristin Nilsen 1:12:35

So why all of this terror and controversy on Made for TV movies? There's actually a reason networks could take risks with TV movies that they couldn't do with a TV series, because if it caused an uproar, or if it tanked in the ratings, it was just a one time hit to the network. Unlike a series, a TV series where you could risk diminishing your audience and maybe even canceling the series. So this allowed them to do two things. They could go for broke and tempt big audiences with salacious content, or you could address controversial social issues that might risk a backlash from conservative audiences, right? Because it's just the one time you're just showing it, the one time get people talking, they get mad at you. But now we're moving on to something else. Oh, right.

Carolyn Cochrane 1:13:18

And not to mention, I think, that even when you get the backlash from the conservative audiences, that makes all the more people maybe want to watch and see what's all this about that might not have even been aware of the movie before. So honestly, I think it's a win win, as long as they can get stuff past the FCC and all those rules and things like that, which is really amazing that some of this stuff could get past some of those ridiculous because I remember when we were doing the game shows and you there were certain things match game people couldn't say because they were too, um, risque, certain phrases, you know, that we talked about. So, yeah, like

Kristin Nilsen 1:13:55

you couldn't even say urine or something. Yeah, yeah. And now you have bad Ronald, yeah, hiding in the bedroom, getting ready to rape somebody and then murder them. I mean, it's just bonkers. It's bonkers.

Michelle Newman 1:14:07

And in re watching some of these over the past couple of weeks, especially the ones that are dealing with some really serious topics and issues, I've just felt that they weren't handled that well. I felt that they've just sort of been like, and put it out there, like, Oh, I know what's going to get people to watch. We're going to talk about, you know, incest. We're going to talk about abuse. Let's just make this movie. Let's put it out there. Let's get people talking and and when I watch it, I'm like, Oh, ho, ho, ho, like you're showing one side, or you are, you are showing, you know, you are not telling the whole story. So I feel like a lot of these from the 70s, yes, was it good that they're making having people talk about a lot of these issues? Absolutely, that's always good for people to for these things to come to light. I don't feel, I feel like they weren't done in a way, like I have a lot of criticisms about them, just because now I feel like I'm so conscious of making sure that everything is. Is, is correct? Does

Kristin Nilsen 1:15:01

that make sense? And there's a difference between salacious and raising awareness, right? And so you have to ask, what was their purpose in making this movie? Was it to make people go, Oh my God, and then just they can't take their eyeballs off of it, or is it to help people learn something? And oftentimes it wasn't to help people learn something. It was to make money

Michelle Newman 1:15:21

exactly, and just to almost make, like, it's almost, I feel like they put some of these issues out as movies, just to, like, make a statement, like, make people talk and make people be, like, almost, like, shock value, you know, like, oh yeah, movie about that, yes, you know

Kristin Nilsen 1:15:38

eyeballs. It's all about eyeballs. Yeah, let's get the eyeballs and that. So there's in that vein, there is one made for TV, movie that we will not be talking about today, because I simply cannot. It feels so wrong. And I have no doubt that, you know, we talked about intentions. I have no doubt that the people involved with this movie had the very best of intentions. I really do. I think they did it with love in their hearts. But even by 1979 standards, I found it extremely uncomfortable, so bad I could not. I just, I can't. I just can't even, well, I

Carolyn Cochrane 1:16:13

just, let's expand a little bit, because some people might not know what you're talking about, and I think it would only be fair if we did give it a little a little air time, because it's based on a true story, and it's called like normal people, and if you might recall, it features and leave roles our first love, Sean Cassidy, along with Linda pearl. And let's just say, right there that the title has there's an issue, but based on this non fiction book. It aired on ABC April 13, 1979 Sean Cassidy and Linda Pearl portray Roger and Linda. They are a young couple, both with intellectual disabilities, who want to get married and have children and basically want to have the dreams live, the dreams that a lot of people want to live, but the law and others are saying they can't do it. So the movie, The New York Times actually reviewed the movie and said that these performances are not fudged. Roger and Virginia are portrayed with sometimes painful directness. Mr. Cassidy is admirable in suggesting and maintain and maintaining a sweet goofiness. Miss Pearl is uncompromising and thoroughly convincing in her slur to draw and no nonsense, determination, right? So at the same time, I think in going on what you were saying, Michelle, I've just if we go back to that time, and not with our lens of today, right? I know for me, of course, you better believe I was gonna watch that movie If Sean Cassidy was in it. I still remember that movie, and it was probably, I'm sure, the first time that I ever thought, Oh, these individuals who are different than I am have the same dreams that I have, like they they want to have these lives that all of us maybe want to have. And I don't think that I thought about people that had some challenges wanting the same things that I wanted. But it's a very natural, yeah,

Kristin Nilsen 1:18:17

I know, right. It's so hard to talk about. It's so hard. Yeah, there were

Michelle Newman 1:18:21

teachable moments in that. No question. Now we look at it and, I mean, just from the title alone, we're like, Nope, okay, nope, that is not okay. But at the time it, it wasn't something that was viewed as not okay. So it's not, yeah, it's, it's, it's that, and then it's, it's just cut it for future Christian, just cut me after,

Kristin Nilsen 1:18:47

to your point, Carolyn, that even though I was super uncomfortable watching this movie, their point was made in that I did for the first time. Go, well, yeah, I bet they want to get married. Why shouldn't they be able to get married? And look at all these people are trying to stop them from getting married, and so that was an important thing that they did, and that was their intention of showing this. It's just that the standards with which we do those things today are a lot different. And number one is that we would never have cast neuro typical people to portray people with intellectual disabilities now we have, now we have a standard and a guideline that we just didn't have back then. And so those portrayals that might have been masterful by Sean Cassidy and Linda Pearl Are they just make me uncomfortable. I just keep coming back to uncomfortable. I'm just very uncomfortable. And so maybe it was my 10 year old self going, I don't think you should do this.

Carolyn Cochrane 1:19:42

Yeah, and I think there was another movie that I had forgotten about until I was doing my research for like normal people, and it was called no other love. Do either of you remember that?

Kristin Nilsen 1:19:53

I remember seeing it referenced, but I don't think I've seen it okay.

Carolyn Cochrane 1:19:56

Well, that a very similar storyline. Do. Two, and I'm reading you the tag or the log line, as you said, Two marginally intellectually disabled young adults fall in love and wish to marry. And this starred Richard Thomas and Julie Kavner, oh

Kristin Nilsen 1:20:12

my goodness, from Rhoda, John boy, John boy. And

Carolyn Cochrane 1:20:17

I do remember that movie after, when I went back and and looked at it after I saw the reference to it. I do remember that as well. So yeah, I think all of those things, I don't think anybody was trying to get away with anything when they were doing these, making these movies. I think it was important at the time. But yes, we've we've learned, and we know more, and we do better now.

Kristin Nilsen 1:20:52

So that's a lot of movies. We just talked about a lot of movies in a seemingly random fashion, and it's very, very random. Oh, my God. It's just like we needed to get all of those, those crazy, crazy plot lines out of our systems. But still, you're probably like, what about this one? And what about this one? I can't believe you didn't talk about this one. Don't worry, it's coming.

Carolyn Cochrane 1:21:15

Yes, you guys, it is coming next week. So join us then for the countdown of the top 10 most memorable made for TV movies of our childhoods. And you guys, if you're screaming at your device right now because we forgot your favorite chill out, that's probably because it's made it into our countdown.

Unknown Speaker 1:21:35

Very thank

Michelle Newman 1:21:36

goodness, because I've been screaming for the past hour at my microphone, and thank you all so much for joining us today. If you're at all curious about those little goblin people in the shower or the Zuni fetish doll, please sign up for our weekly reader. That's our newsletter that's like an extension of our podcast, and we'll send you the links to the things we've talked about, and this week will probably be

Kristin Nilsen 1:22:04

a doozy. You've got to see the teeth on the zoom you finish. No,

Michelle Newman 1:22:08

I actually can't wait to find some of those things. The news. Our Weekly Reader is free. It's fun, and you can easily sign up at the link in our bio in Instagram, you can just scroll down and you will see a link that says, sign up for our fun PCPs emails. And we want to give a special, special thank you to our supporters on Patreon, because, honestly, without the support of our patrons, this podcast could not keep on trucking. And today, we want to give a special shout out to patrons. Sheila, Cheryl, Aaron Sean and Kathleen. Thank you all so so much for your support. In

Kristin Nilsen 1:22:48

the meantime, let's raise our glasses for a toast, courtesy of the cast of Threes Company, two good times,

Michelle Newman 1:22:54

two Happy Days,

Carolyn Cochrane 1:22:56

Two Little House on the Prairie. Cheers. Cheers. The

Kristin Nilsen 1:23:01

information, opinions and comments expressed on the pop culture Preservation Society podcast belong solely to Carolyn the crushologist and hello Newman and are in no way representative of our employers or affiliates. And though we truly believe we are always right, there is always a first time the PCPs is written, produced and recorded in Minneapolis, Minnesota, home of the fictional wjm studios and our beloved Mary Richards, Nanu, Nanu, keep on trucking and may the Force be with you.