Charlie’s Angels: Which Angel are You?
Kristin Nilsen 0:01
Thank you and welcome to all of our new supporters on Patreon. This is an independently produced show written research produced, edited, distributed and promoted by us, Carolyn, Kristen and Michelle, and paid for out of our own pockets because it's important to us, but you can help us pay the bills by clicking the Patreon link on our website, pop preservationist.com or by going to our Lincoln bio on Instagram, and finding the Patreon link in our link tree. It's one of the best ways for you to tell us that you like what you hear, so we can keep on truckin. Thank you and enjoy the show. Your choices are commonly examined the bomb so I can begin diffusing it. Number two, call someone who knows what the hell they're doing. Number three carry the bomb outside away from innocent bystanders. Oh, no,
Michelle Newman 0:47
I was gonna call someone Yeah, both of you nodded your
Kristin Nilsen 0:50
heads on call someone I was gonna calmly examine the bombs.
Michelle Newman 0:54
And I was gonna call you
Kristin Nilsen 0:57
this is why we're together. We are Charlie's Angels
Unknown Speaker 1:06
is a song by passangers.
Carolyn Cochrane 1:15
Will be praying it will make you we had a dream we welcome to the pop culture Preservation Society. The podcast for people born in the big wheel generation who knew their cool lots from their Gauchos. We
Kristin Nilsen 1:32
believe our childhoods gave us unforgettable songs, stories, characters and images. And if we don't talk about them, they'll disappear like Marshall will and Holly on a routine expedition.
Michelle Newman 1:41
And today we'll be saving our identities as crimefighting private investigators with sweet bell bottoms and perky nipples by asking just kidding. Just kidding. sweet bell bottoms and perfect hair by asking the question, which one of Charlie's Angels were you? I'm Carolyn. I'm Kristen. And I'm Michelle. And we are your pop culture preservationists.
Speaker 1 2:08
Once upon a time, there were three little girls who went to the police academy
Speaker 1 2:24
and they were each assigned very hazardous duties. But I took them away from all that. And now they work for me. My name is Charlie.
Kristin Nilsen 2:48
Once upon a time, there were three little girls who religiously followed those three little girls who went to the police academy. And they were each assigned very hazardous duties like watching TV and absorbing everything it taught them about being a woman. But growing up took them away from all that. And now they have a podcast about
Carolyn Cochrane 3:08
Praise be now
Michelle Newman 3:09
it's hard work.
Kristin Nilsen 3:11
It's hard, but somebody has to do
Michelle Newman 3:13
it. I know. Well, Charlie's Angels aired on ABC from September 22 1976 to June 24 1981. That is a total of five seasons and 115 episodes. Wow. Yeah, every time I hear that over 100 I imagined the big cake. Yeah, right. Oh, you syndicate on a cake. They got the cake. Yeah. This series was created by Ivan golf and Ben Roberts and was produced by television, Superman. Aaron Spelling. The idea for this series came to be when golf and Robert to notice the success of police woman and develop the premise of three beautiful female private investigators to be more of an escapist show. Which I think I think it's definitely a little bit more escapist. Some policewoman. Oh, definitely.
Kristin Nilsen 3:59
Yeah, it's not a procedural and now wasn't really dealing with any real people. Like those bad guys. Were those were comic book bad guys.
Michelle Newman 4:09
Right? Right. Yeah, right. Well, this is funny. Three years earlier, producer Leonard Goldberg had had kind of had the same idea, but not really because his idea was for a show called the alley cats, in which three female private eyes would live in alleys. And were whips and chains.
Carolyn Cochrane 4:26
No,
Michelle Newman 4:29
no, it's true. It's true. I don't want that. But since well, in the early pre production stages of Charlie's Angels, both Goldberg and spelling immediately wanted Kate Jackson. She was like, yeah, no, I mean, hello 1970s feminism, right. And she was actually given semi control over the development. Hello, 1970s feminism? Yes,
Kristin Nilsen 4:53
there's so much sense, right? Because she emerges as like the lead angel but nowhere in the show did they say Sabrina is the lead Angel.
Michelle Newman 5:01
Well, and you know, fun fact, she was originally cast as Kelly but was more attracted to the character Sabrina. So she got she got to have what she wanted, right? It was actually it was actually Kate Jackson who decided that three women would be called Angels after seeing a picture of three angels hanging in Aaron spelling's office series became known as Harry's angels. Oh, that sounds like Harry angels. Yeah. Don't ask me how it got switched to Charlie's because that is where my research ended. I can tell you. Oh,
Carolyn Cochrane 5:36
well, I can tell you there was another show on at the same time. I don't remember it. It was called Harry Oh, or something like that. So they didn't want to have that same name. They wanted to get rid of Harry. Now. I wish I had the reason why it's Charlie. I just know that's why they couldn't call it Harry Zane. Okay, well, I'll
Kristin Nilsen 5:53
give you a lot of reasons that they don't show that I want wants their angel to be here, you know?
Michelle Newman 6:00
Yeah. And then that couldn't have been sponsored. Or maybe it could have been sponsored by Nair. Or tickle tickle razor. Was it tickled that wasn't tickle was the deodorant was a little round flicker, flicker, flicker, flicker, Flickr, that little round one that always cut you? That was
Carolyn Cochrane 6:16
like five blades in the whole? Internet. Right. And it was just such a bargaining? Yeah. Five for one. Yeah, well,
Kristin Nilsen 6:26
each of these angels were like real people to us. So let's learn a little bit about them. I don't want people to know who our angel identities are right now. So I'm going to randomly assign angels to each of us to introduce Okay, so Carolyn, I want you to tell us about Kelly Garrett.
Carolyn Cochrane 6:45
would be happy to tell you about Kelly Garrett. And I've got to tell you what fun research I had with this because if you go onto the Charlie's Angels wiki fan page, those folks on there they go down some deep rabbit they put me I mean, my goodness. I'm just gonna highlight some of the things that I can tell you about Kelly based on the wiki fan page, but I will put a link in our show notes and maybe Michelle can put one in our Weekly Reader just so you can read all of the bits and pieces you can find out about Kelly by watching the series all the way through. I will tell you that Kelly didn't know her real last name. Because Kelly never knew her parents. She was an orphan. And she was raised in the St. Agnes home for the orphaned in Dallas.
Unknown Speaker 7:30
I did not know this. Well.
Michelle Newman 7:32
She is really funny. I just rewatched Episode One, season one episode one and the exposition. So that is so funny. You guys like it. She'll say Kelly will say like, oh, well, yes. Like, if only I would have known that if I hadn't been raised in an orphanage without parents.
Carolyn Cochrane 7:52
So here it was, I guess somebody's name. I mean, I don't know if it was the headmaster's name. Hopefully not because the orphanage matron was named Beamish and she used to love Kelly in a dark closet overnight, so I'm hoping her last name isn't Garrett. We also know that Kelly took comfort as a child and with a doll named a little a bit and she still owns a little bit as an adult.
Kristin Nilsen 8:15
Oh, I think it's creepy. Like she's going on. I'm like, Oh,
Michelle Newman 8:18
don't you have things you had as a child? Like I still have my stuffed panda and my stuffed Grover. Do you not still have anything time?
Kristin Nilsen 8:27
There's something about a doll though. That makes me think of people. Yeah, we rocking them in the dark like, oh. And
Carolyn Cochrane 8:36
she Christianize you, man? Yes.
Kristin Nilsen 8:38
I have a problem. I yeah, I have Yeah, think about dolls that make me feel icky. Well,
Carolyn Cochrane 8:43
after the orphanage burned down,
Kristin Nilsen 8:48
burned down. And I mean, it's not bad enough that she is from an orphanage and has no last name. And Beamish puts her in a closet.
Michelle Newman 8:55
And she goes back to the orphanage to talk to the head nun who was like you turned out so well, Kelly. It's so great to see how well you turned out because she's like, Whatever happened to my best friend and the orphanage and the head nun is like, I'm sorry to tell you she's dead.
Carolyn Cochrane 9:10
Well, isn't that interesting. So somehow she ended up in many foster homes. So that kind of tells her story. A little bit after high school. She was trained at the Los Angeles Police Academy, so she decides she's going to be a police officer. And it's important to note that while she is on the floor, she testifies at the trial of Frank Desmond, which led to his four year imprisonment. This plays a part later on in the series. Remember the name Frank? Okay. Frank Desmond. Okay. She kept an unidentified black and white picture of a young girl on her dresser. Throughout this series. whenever you'd see your dresser you'd see this but we never find out who that young girl is. I guess we can make our theory probably the dead orphan friend. We also know that she fell in love during Charlie's Angels with a gentleman named Bill cord. Also Chris Monroe Oh also fell in love with Phil. Oh, no. So there's some drama that goes on there. What happens? We don't know because guess what? He dies?
Kristin Nilsen 10:08
Oh Caitlin
Michelle Newman 10:08
episode one I think is her boyfriend is a mustache Lois Tom Selleck. Oh real? Hmm. So no mustache. So it's one of those things are watching and you go, who is that? Who is that? Who is when you realize is Tom Selleck without a mustache, and you're like, I
Kristin Nilsen 10:24
can't even picture it. That's
Carolyn Cochrane 10:26
a very fun fact. And I think Charlie's Angels is one of those classic 70s series where you'll find a lot of stars that we get to know later on in their seniors getting their little start there. And I'll share a couple of the people that were in an episode I watched a little bit later, but we know that when Kelly went to the police academy, she was very proficient in armed and unarmed combat because we know that her Judo and Karate that's kind of what we see in the opening scene. She like flips that guy over and like every opening of Charlie's Angels, so we know she's got the judo skills going on. I forgot about judo. These are a few other little fun facts we know about Kelly based on her episodes. One she was good enough at driving a dune buggy that she chased down an experienced driver on the beach, she can drive a dune buggy. It's also implied that Kelly knows how to surf. She knows how to pilot a yacht, though not very well, she she cannot drive an 18 Wheeler very well. And she can't drive a racecar very well. Evidently, she was awarded an honorary degree from Blackmore College, in recognition of her contribution to solving a murder that had happened on the campus. So maybe even though she didn't go to college, she did earn an honorary for solving a murder. We also know that Kelly becomes the head of the Townsend agency after Charlie dies, and Sabrina has moved on.
Kristin Nilsen 11:50
How did I miss that Charlie died?
Carolyn Cochrane 11:52
Well, I'm starting to think it was kind of those last seasons when we didn't really I mean, I don't know I don't wanna speak right. I think I graduated from it. So I don't remember a whole lot of that season four and five when some of those name people came on to play in angels, weren't the Oh geez. So that's a little bit about Kelly. Maybe too much. Maybe not enough? I don't know. But that's what I've got.
Kristin Nilsen 12:14
At You freaked me out when you said Beamish because did you guys see the episode where Kelly has possessed where she goes to a seance? And she gets possessed? And it's super scary. And she's and Kelly is sitting at the sands table and she starts talking in this little bit. Oh, it's like this. And she's talking about Beamish. No, no, no, don't do that. No. Oh, geez. Yes, yes. And so she's talking about Beamish putting her in the closet.
Unknown Speaker 12:37
Don't make me go into dark closet. Please be Michelle I'll be queued up promise a promise.
Kristin Nilsen 12:48
And I'm like, why Beamish? What is the name does that has to be? Nobody made that up? There has to be somebody's name.
Carolyn Cochrane 12:55
was the woman who the matron of the orphanage?
Kristin Nilsen 12:59
Oh, scary. She's also a very good motorcyclist or his pinky Tuscadero say? Yes. Because remember, in the opening, she takes the motorcycle helmet off and she whips her beautiful hair around that one. Yes. And then in the episode where they joined the circus, she drives on to the circus property. And she's like, Hi, I'm gogo Garrett. I'm here to be your motorcycle I got.
Michelle Newman 13:22
I want to watch that one.
Kristin Nilsen 13:24
I'll go get
Carolyn Cochrane 13:25
it maybe also a little forgetful, because that is such a classic part of the open when she's running away from the car. And then it looks like she realizes she forgot something from the car. And she makes that quick turn and like start to run back toward the car. I think right before it's gonna blow up or something. I'm not sure but I will always remember like, Oh, I forgot my whatever. My good. Okay,
Kristin Nilsen 13:47
Michelle, I would like you to take hold on. Let me see. Okay, Michelle, I would like you to take Sabrina Duncan.
Michelle Newman 13:57
Let me see what I can. Okay, well, let's see what I can just pull out of my memory bank about Sabrina Duncan. Well, Sabrina was the was a founding employee of the Charles Townsend detective agency, and acted as the team leader and the understood smart one. I think that's kind of terrible, though. They had to be smart. They all had
Kristin Nilsen 14:21
to be. I was thinking about ways. There are no dumb angels. You
Michelle Newman 14:25
cannot even do them. But it is true and rewatching some they definitely gave her the lines where she sounded more like I guess technically smart. Yeah. She had been married to another police officer Bill Duncan, but was presumably already divorced when first scene, although in episode one. They insinuate they still canoodle because Bill Duncan comes out and they say she says something. He says something like even though we're not married anymore. You still want to come over later and she's like, I'll be there or something like that. So Oh yeah. Brina Sabrina is also self efficient, confident, loyal, trustworthy and caring, always warning the others of physical danger. Sabrina does things by the book. Although I follow a different book. Sabrina worked as an angel for about three years before resigning to get married and start a family. And again, these, this, these little backstories are coming you guys from either Charlie's angels.fandom.com or hero.fandom.com. So fun. And she seems the
Kristin Nilsen 15:32
least likely to resign from the agency to go get married. Right? That does seem like something Sabrina would do.
Michelle Newman 15:38
Sabrina is going to be the first one that they're going to dress in a turtleneck, and a three piece suit like vast a turtleneck and a blazer. And usually in a nice pastel plaid. Oh, another thing I like in season one is I love her Sabrina necklace. And I do I'm a teacher guys know. Well, I want to Sabrina why Breno I actually looked last night to see if I could find a Sabrina one. But that looks exactly this kind of curved yet in this kind of this kind of thick font. You guys they even when she was wearing a pink turtleneck with the past vest and the pastel pants and the pastel plaid jacket. They had the necklace outside of the turtleneck. You know, usually it comes up like little waterfall. It's big enough that it could go outside of it. But over this sweater
Kristin Nilsen 16:26
I mean, it's just awesome. Sabrina
Michelle Newman 16:28
is just super cool. Yeah, Sabrina, she's she's the
Kristin Nilsen 16:32
mom of the angels. She keeps all the cats in line
Michelle Newman 16:35
a little bit more. I also get that she's a little bit more no nonsense. Yep. And a little bit more practical,
Kristin Nilsen 16:41
I think. Yeah. Yep. Sabrina, that's Sabrina in a nutshell. So I'm going to take the third founding member of the Townsend agency, and that would be Jill Monroe, played by Farrah Fawcett majors as she was known at the time, Joe was only in the first season of Charlie's Angels, which always blows everybody's mind. One season, season one season and she becomes a legend, right are legendary. And even so even though she was only in one season, I believe it's Jill Monroe who created and cemented the overwhelming success of all of the angels. I just believe that's the case. She was very good at her job. And she even returned for three episodes in season three and three episodes in season four, because her usefulness as an angel was that enduring. It was really good. Yeah. Joe was the athletic Angel. And you can see her in the opening credits playing tennis, doing karate monkey bars. Her undercover jobs utilized her athleticism extensively, and she caught many bad guys while pretending to be things like a roller derby competitor, a swimming coach, and a dance teacher all things that require you to wear very tiny clothes. But she did not need a car to make a clean getaway, because she was just as fast on a skateboard. Oh, yes. She didn't need tiny clothes for that. But she did rock a sweet pair of Nike Cortez with a Red Swoosh. And if you watch you've all seen this a million times. Right? And I love watching that Jill Monroe getaway on the skateboard. Yes, because it's very clear that it's a man in a wig on the board. It's like it's just like a head of hair. And and then no body with no hips at all. Like she's the courteous person on TV and there are no hips anywhere. It's just clearly a man. So after a year with the Townsend agency, Jill resigned to become a Formula One champion racecar driver. Yeah, she yeah, as you do. And she even won the Grand Prix in 1979. Yes, she does, Jill. And as far as we know, Jill is still racing cars in Europe and dating Prince Eric. Oh. We don't know. We haven't heard from her. No, we haven't. So when Joe resigns from the agency to go be a Formula One racecar driver. They have an opening right agency that they need to fill. So they took some resumes and eventually they find the perfect person who just happens to be Jill's little sister, Chris Monroe, played by Cheryl Ladd. A
Michelle Newman 19:19
lot of people loved Chris. And if you're looking at, you know, I don't I don't think I watched season one in real time. I was only seven. Yeah. So when I think of Charlie's Angels on TV, I think it's Chris Monroe, who I see with Kelly and Sabrina, and I loved her. I just thought she was so beautiful. And just so wholesomely beautiful. Everybody loves. It loves Chris. Everybody loves all of us. Kind of an angel you didn't like right? If so get out of this country,
Kristin Nilsen 19:49
right? Oh, did you know she did study roller skating with Kenny Daniels? Are we supposed to know who Kenny Daniels is and she became quite comfortable So
Michelle Newman 20:01
they all roller skate. I think at some point. Yeah. Oh, Kenny
Kristin Nilsen 20:04
is important because presumably she stopped taking lessons from him after Kenny's arrest. And then she stopped. Yeah,
Carolyn Cochrane 20:12
either roller skating felon. Yeah, she's also
Kristin Nilsen 20:15
a really good Disco dancer which came in really handy handy in the disco angels episode because we think of you know, the disco as being a place of like fun and lightheartedness and dancing. But there are a lot of narrative wells that hang out at the disco, and the angels took them down. And so Chris was able to use her disco dancing skills out on the dance floor with the bad guys just sort of distract them while they could do their investigating. That's very handy.
Carolyn Cochrane 20:40
Remote. That's wonderful. I will excuse Sure. Okay, there are other two forgettable angels that we have. I'm sorry.
Michelle Newman 20:53
I know. It just didn't I don't even I didn't. I didn't even know who they were. Well,
Carolyn Cochrane 20:57
after Sabrina Duncan decides to get married and have some kids. We need a third angel. So in the beginning of season four, we are introduced to the newest angel and the producers of Charlie's Angels wanted it to be with a big splash. So we meet her on Love Boat angels. Oh, we meet her on perhaps the most iconic crossover. Any crossover? Ever.
Michelle Newman 21:26
Can we do an episode we might have to
Carolyn Cochrane 21:29
leave? Because it's got some Bert Convy is cynicism that he's a bad guy? How can that be? So here's where we're introduced to our newest Angel. Tiffany wells. This was played by actor Shelley hack. Oh, of
Michelle Newman 21:43
course. Sorry. But yes, I do know Tiffany wells. Yes, of course. I'm
Carolyn Cochrane 21:47
glad you know her because she only was on for one season. Because they didn't think that Tiffany was I guess, you know, she wasn't doing very well as an angel. She wasn't helping as much as she could and investigating. Yeah, she was not a good investigator. So she was let go. And our newest Angel, who was with Charlie's Angels for the last episode was Julie Rogers. And she was played by Tanya Roberts. And maybe not very well, because that was the last season. Yeah.
Kristin Nilsen 22:16
Too many angels. It's just too many angels. And I think the reason in the beginning that they they grabbed our attention so well is because each one of those angels was very different from the other. And as we get toward the end, it was like they were just looking for pretty people. And yeah, kind of Yeah, they weren't they didn't differentiate themselves enough from the others,
Carolyn Cochrane 22:36
right? And sometimes, you know, just stick with the OG and if it's hiding, start to go down a little bit, then maybe that's the time to say Sayonara,
Kristin Nilsen 22:44
it's time to close the Townsend agency. Yes. So who are these people who played our angels? Again, we're going to do this randomly because we don't want to reveal our actual Angel identities to you. Although I think a lot of you already know what they are. I would be really curious to see if people could identify our angel identities. Okay, so we're gonna start with Carolyn again and Carolyn, you are going to tell us all about K Jackson.
Carolyn Cochrane 23:09
Okay, Jackson. I love Kate Jackson. You guys. I was first introduced to Kate Jackson when she played nurse Jill Danko on one of my favorite shows was remember the rookies. Oh, yes, the name but I don't remember the show. I loved the rookies. And then a couple episodes that are so sad like once she got shot and you know if she was gonna live she was married to one of the rookies, but she was a nurse. But interestingly enough, she got the most fan mail of any of the stars on the rookies, which is no because she's not like the star at all. No, she was not one of the rookies. She was the race. So, but she held her own got the most man male. And that is what prompted Aaron Spelling to say, we've got something here, let's get her own show. Let's get her arm, which Michelle told us all about how they got her arm, you know, for this crime action show. Originally, it was written that the characters were going to be police officers. And I think she was one of the people that also said, I think that private investigators, more exciting also the Alleycat name, as you said, Michelle was so stupid. She probably said that I'm so
Michelle Newman 24:18
confused. I wonder if in like when this was in production in say, like 1975 If she was getting the credit for a lot of the decisions she was making, because she was a woman and she had you know, the rest of them were all these kind of established producers and directors as suits, because I bet it really changed the trajectory of Charlie's Angels. It wouldn't have been called right they would have been alley cats and whips and chains. And they would have been police officers and
Kristin Nilsen 24:45
your instincts. were correct, right. It worked. Everything that she wanted to happen. It worked exactly.
Carolyn Cochrane 24:50
So as you also said, Michelle, she originally was going to be cast as Kelly Garrett, but she decided on the Sabrina Duncan character instead, primarily because she said that's the smart one she wanted to be seen as the smart one. And she starred in that role for three seasons before departing. And as her character decided to have a baby and to get married and have children. But I'm just theorizing here the decision to leave the show might have had something to do with the fact that Aaron Spelling would not let her go and be the star of Kramer versus Kramer. About Kramer episode when she was mad, I read. And well, she should yeah. And so they weren't willing to rearrange the shooting schedule for the show. And I'm thinking that was the tipping point. And she was thinking you're hindering my career.
Michelle Newman 25:42
Yeah, especially. I mean, I think she probably was really upset initially when she's like Dustin Hoffman's in this movie, because let's not forget he was big time, right? Yeah. But then a year later you find out it wins the Oscar that role. I know. It was Meryl Streep, who won the Oscar but you you would probably feel like I could have won the Oscar for that. Yeah,
Kristin Nilsen 26:01
that has to be correct. Because you there's no growth in your career if you are married to Charlie's Angels, and there's no wiggle room for you to do anything else, where eventually Charlie's Angels is going to end and then what are you going to do?
Carolyn Cochrane 26:15
Do you know that Kate was the only Charlie's Angel to host Saturday Night Live? really did. Indeed die was the 13th episode. musical guest Delbert McClinton. Sing the song.
Michelle Newman 26:30
I can't think of anyone know who that is. Oh,
Kristin Nilsen 26:32
you would know there's one. Yeah, there's one hit and I can't think of one.
Carolyn Cochrane 26:44
So after Charlie's Angels, you might recall that she starred in a ground breaking film called Making love in 1982, to remember when Harry Hamlin, Michael Keane, who had been coincidentally one of the rookies. And yeah, so this is the really the first feature film that deals with the topic of homosexuality and in a sensitive nature. Do you guys remember that?
Kristin Nilsen 27:09
I do remember that yet? Of course. But I do remember the presence of it and knowing what it was about. And then nobody said anything. Right. Like that? Was it?
Carolyn Cochrane 27:17
Yeah, unfortunately, I think it was a flop at the box office. So but I do remember seeing it, watching it at someone's house late at night or something, because back then that would have been a very thing I'd have been very curious about. So that
Kristin Nilsen 27:30
would be an interesting thing for us to dig into. Here's something from our popular culture that may not be that well remembered, but might be interesting to revisit because of what they were doing at that moment in time.
Michelle Newman 27:41
I think that's great. Yeah, I think well, it was super important. I mean, 92 Wow, it's gutsy.
Carolyn Cochrane 27:47
Right? Gutsy for all of those people that decided to be in the movie, too. Yeah. Her career didn't end though after the movie or after Charlie's Angels, because she was she starred in Scarecrow and Mrs. King with Bruce Bruce Boxleitner. From my teenage
Michelle Newman 28:03
years. That's right. Yeah. So that was
Carolyn Cochrane 28:05
really the last time we would have seen her in a regular series. She had a few little bit parts in the early aughts, as they say, in the 2000s. That was her last time acting really. She's lived pretty quiet life since then. But we did see some photos of her last year 2023 she was a guest at Jaclyn Smith son's wedding. So there were some recent photos of her that we could see how she was doing now, but she's not acting. She's living a quiet life somewhere. Hope, hopefully horses I'm sure it's with horses, I'm sure I think or something. Yeah, for sure.
Kristin Nilsen 28:39
And lots of dogs. Yeah,
Carolyn Cochrane 28:41
right. So we're just gonna write her narrative. Yeah. dogs and horses. And what
Kristin Nilsen 28:47
what Sabrina Duncan's best life look like. Okay, Michelle, it's your turn. And I would like you to give us a little bio on Farah faucet.
Michelle Newman 28:55
Farrah Fawcett. What do I know about Farah fossa? Okay, so Jomon row was Farrah Fawcett's breakthrough role. Prior to that she was known mainly just for shampoo commercials and being the wife of oh, what's his name? You know? Yeah. What's his name? What's his name anyway? And because we are ensconced in 1976 today, right here, we can't not mention the red swimsuit poster and the story behind it. So it was taken right around the filming of the pilot. The photographer was Bruce MK bloom. They did the session, the photography session at the majors house. And at the last minute, Farah swapped out the bikini she was wearing, ran upstairs and grabbed her own one piece. The red one piece, the famous the red one piece heard around the world. I mean, the girl knew what she looks good in. Right. Let's give her that she was uncomfortable in the bikini and she wanted to wear her own swimsuit. And remember, this was all a full six months before Charlie's Angels even aired. We have some funny stories in our 1976 This episode I believe you guys, wasn't there one that like dads were giving it to their sons. So that because they couldn't have it like in their garage because their wives would be so they're like, Oh here, son so then they just go into their bedroom and be like, oh, man, yeah, I gotta go. I gotta go read my 16 year old bedtime.
Carolyn Cochrane 30:19
Read by bathing suit needs to be in the Smithsonian. It is. It is. Oh, is it
Michelle Newman 30:24
it's Yep. Yay. Okay. Anyway, Ferris primary focus was on her marriage get this, her contract with Aaron Spelling stipulated she she needed to be finished with each day's shooting at exactly seven o'clock pm to make it home and time to cook dinner. Oh, four oh, what's his name? Now this again, this is I'm not I'm not making this up. I'm getting this from other sources. So you know, let's consider the source, which is a PDF. But it doesn't sound like that was the recipe for a happy marriage. The recipe for happy marriage, because even before the end of the first season, she announced she was leaving the show. And according to People Magazine, marital trouble and a desire to move to film work were two possible reasons behind her exit. ABC which had a verbal agreement with her shewed. And Kristen, like you mentioned that she kept she appeared and other episodes, it's because they eventually let her out of her contract. But it was conditional conditional on making six guest appearances during the next two seasons. Okay, yep. So they Souter, but then like in a settlement, they said, Fine, so I find that like, I, I don't know the whole dinner at seven, I have to be home and then the marital troubles. I don't know. I mean, how can any of us presume that? How can we know? And then sadly, so sad and so tragic, you guys. We all I'm sure remember very well that at age 59 She was diagnosed with terminal cancer. And just three years later, in June of 2009, Farrah Fawcett died, it just age 62. That just
Kristin Nilsen 32:04
seems so tragically young, because now again, how old are we? Oh,
Michelle Newman 32:08
yeah,
Kristin Nilsen 32:09
there's there's a podcast out there that focuses on people who died whose deaths were overlooked because of who also died on the same day. And so the story is that Farrah Fawcett's death was vastly overlooked because she died on the same day as Michael Jackson. That's right. That's right. So we didn't get the opportunity to celebrate her to mourn her in the way that we would have had Michael Jackson that died that day. She was a legend. And she was a legend for so many different things. So it's an interesting legend to talk about because it's, it was fleeting, and a lot of it was based on her beauty. That's certainly not all she who she was. And she did many, many, many things, but she's an icon because of the hair and now she mesmerized people in that poster, which really, the poster is quite chaste. It is not overtly sexual. She can't control her nipples, right? control the temperature. It was really very much a girl next door in a swimsuit that we could not not look at. couldn't look away. Thank you. Farrah Fawcett rest in peace. So that leaves the last one to me. The woman who played Kelly Garrett was Jacqueline Smith. Jacqueline Smith is best known for her role as Kelly Garrett in the television series Charlie's Angels, and was the only original female lead to remain with the series for its complete run. She grew up in Houston, Texas and attended Did you know this Carolyn? I did. She went to Trinity University, which is where Carolyn went,
Carolyn Cochrane 33:39
Yes, she didn't graduate but she did no. She
Kristin Nilsen 33:43
left after a year she was only there for a year and she left to go to New York to join the Balanchine School of American Ballet. But instead of being a dancer, she started working getting work as a model and then commercials because you gotta pay rent, right? This and she got a lot of commercials as a bread girl. So if both she and Farrah Fawcett were kind of the shampoo people they were the hair people and the commercials that led to a TV career like TV series career that really started in 1968 with guest spots on shows like The Partridge Family and McLeod and the rookies. She was on the rookies and even switch before being cast and Charlie's Angels. After Charlie's Angels, she was nominated for the Golden Globe for Best Actress and a TV film for the title role in the 1981 made for TV movie Jacqueline Bouvier Kennedy that's
Carolyn Cochrane 34:31
Oh, I do she did a really good job my mom could could just knock it over happy what a great job she did. I even
Kristin Nilsen 34:38
as a child I remember going oh my god, it looks that's like Jackie Oh, she looked just like her and their demeanors were so similar. It was a shockingly mirrored performance. It was very really, really good. So she went on to star in tons of TV, movies and mini series over the next 20 years including several TV viewers. tons of Daniel steel novels right? Scope in 1990. And do you remember this one family album?
Michelle Newman 35:06
I read them all as well.
Kristin Nilsen 35:08
I didn't do I totally read family album. I watched family album.
Michelle Newman 35:12
Yes. Yeah. Obsessed. Yeah,
Kristin Nilsen 35:13
I mean talk about a cottage industry that is a good gig to get out to be the person who plays the lead and all of the Danielle Steel made for TV movies so smart. And let's not forget you guys. Jacqueline Smith contribution to fashion with the Jacqueline Smith collection at Kmart. You know her name and her face sold those things saved Kmart to Kmart 100 per saved me.
Carolyn Cochrane 35:42
Know, I donned quite a bit of Jacqueline Smith attire in my day, did you? Well when we lived in a smaller town in Virginia and Kmart was kind of the only store that Walmart was a little bit further and wet. When I was pregnant. I went from a size like nine to a size 11 and a half. Really got bad. And so I bought like the Jacqueline Smith kind of kid looking. Yeah, sneakers and some other flats that were hers. And then I bought some like extra large shirts of Jaclyn Smith that I could wear. And I think she had a line of stirrup pants. And I suppose
Michelle Newman 36:21
at the same time with a little tenis with the little cat Yeah, of course.
Carolyn Cochrane 36:25
I think pictures with that. With those. So yeah, so I she really saved me during my maternity days when I needed some bigger clothes and I want them to be fashionable.
Michelle Newman 36:35
Sure, from the Jacqueline's. So you know at age 78, she still has a line of clothes go on her Instagram. And just like two days ago, I was like, That is the cutest like kind of silky jogger pants with a little like bomber jacket. But she had it all together. So it looks like a jumpsuit. And she's in her closet. And I was just transfixed. Also, can we just say the woman is still just dropped jazz. beautiful, gorgeous.
Kristin Nilsen 37:02
Some have even said that she pioneered the whole concept of celebrities developing their own brands, rather than just endorsing some other brand. Like basically Jessica Simpson owes her whole career to Jacqueline Smith.
Michelle Newman 37:15
Yeah,
Carolyn Cochrane 37:16
I would totally say that. I mean, that was the first time I remember anything like that. Oh, I do too.
Speaker 2 37:20
Yeah. Well, as an actress and a model, I've worn a lot of terrific clothes. And I've learned a lot about what makes clothes fit well and look good. I work with Kmart, because they want what I want great looking clothes at a good price. Kmart knows that value isn't just a price tag, buying something because it cost less isn't much good unless you're happy with it.
Kristin Nilsen 37:40
So all of these angels had a huge impact on us as children. But the critics were not so kind.
Carolyn Cochrane 37:47
No, they weren't this time. In the 70s. In response to Charlie's Angels, we get a new term about TV shows like Charlie's Angels. So the term jiggle TV. Okay, can you figure out maybe what that might mean? I can define it for you, as Wikipedia does the gratuitous use of scantily clad women to appeal to television audiences? Well, this was actually a term coined by Paul Klein in the 1970s. Now, I want you to remember this because let's take this term with a grain of salt. Paul Klein at the time was the programming head of NBC. Okay, so this is a different network than we would see. Charlie's Angels or Wonder Woman. Okay, and he's also known for his least objectionable programming, like
Kristin Nilsen 38:38
family friendly to the hilt. Is that what he wanted? Okay, exactly.
Carolyn Cochrane 38:42
So how convenient for him in my mind that he is going to come up with this term juggle TV, when I'm sure Charlie's Angels was killing NBC in the ratings as was one. Yep. So all of a sudden, we see articles in like the New York Times a piece that has Charlie's Angels as the the photo next to a title that's equating these kinds of shows with soft porn.
Kristin Nilsen 39:07
Oh my god,
Carolyn Cochrane 39:08
are you saying hyperbole? Right? And so if you all remember in our 1976 episode that we referred to earlier, Kristin talks a little bit about, you know, is this jiggle TV and this kind of equating it to soft porn and things like that? Is that accurate? Like, is this really what we're looking at? Or is this maybe again, these movements trying to make this something that it really isn't? So what what do you guys think of the term and do you think when you watch Charlie's Angels is that what immediately comes to mind and did that for you as a kid?
Kristin Nilsen 39:45
Certainly not as a kid. Oh my god. No,
Michelle Newman 39:48
I mean, watching it this past week watching episodes, one, two, and three. You know, Ferris nipples are on display. You can tell they're not wearing bras. They're not wearing bras actually less Tonight I had a posit, and I was like, Wait, Sabrina is wearing a bra, actually. But Kelly and Joe, were not ever wearing bras and Jill, no matter really what she's wearing. She's cold.
Kristin Nilsen 40:09
She's very, very cold out there.
Michelle Newman 40:11
But I will also say it's tricky, because I don't think it's necessarily inappropriate because let's not forget, it's the 70s. Right? This is what they're all kind of doing. Also, I will say that in just the three episodes I watched, there is a lot of innuendo in the writing a lot of sexual innuendo as well. You know, an episode three, I believe. Sabrina goes to visit a photographer and she tells him Yes, she does want to watch porn and he comes out in the bathrobe and you know, he's got like, Okay, well, let's get to it. And then thankfully, Kelly comes in, and halter top to save her. But there's a lot of innuendo. Not just that. Yeah. So I can see what they're saying. But I don't know that I ever think that it crosses a line. I think I put that 70s Band Aid over it a lot. I mean, it's certainly not anything worse or even as bad as what is on network TV. My
Kristin Nilsen 41:01
God. I mean to call that porn is ludicrous because they're innuendo is one thing. Porn is another way. Porn requires action. These were beautiful women with beautiful bodies, oftentimes wearing small pieces of clothing. At the same time, I never felt as if they were using their bodies in the small clothing in a sexual way. So even in terms of Ferro whose body was tremendously objectified, her whole being was tremendously objectified, but it never seemed to be for the purposes of, of sex. Right? She always seemed like the girl next door with her nipples, right? Well, yeah, it's not her fault that her body was a work of art. It almost seems like divine, that she just came out looking the way that she did.
Michelle Newman 41:52
I do think, though, that the producers, the writers used her body and their bodies to make everyone else think of sex. There is a line in the episode I watched last night where her car's broken down. And she asks the man if he can give her a lift, and she says, Where do you want me to go? And the look on his face is like Xilinx, you know. So they're trying to make us think that but like I've said, it's certainly more tame than today's standards of what we watch and like succession or something. Oh, my God, you've got you know, I know that's not network TV. But you have, you know, Kieran Culkin masturbating against a window. I can't just keep going back to it's very 70s. To me, it's
Kristin Nilsen 42:34
very simply,
Carolyn Cochrane 42:35
I think that's the point is that one we have to remember, that's what people were wearing on the streets to, like, you were putting people in clothes that they weren't, you know, that wasn't hanging on, you know, racks in the stores. For one thing. I remember thinking and maybe I'm kind of have rose colored glasses. But as I was watching some of these episodes, now, I thought they were being really smart. Like they knew they were attractive, use that as a, as a strength to kind of, you know, almost just show these matte show these men is like, that's all they think about. So that's
Michelle Newman 43:09
true. Yeah. She was trying to sort of catch him.
Kristin Nilsen 43:11
They always capitalized on that. Yes, yes.
Carolyn Cochrane 43:15
So here, it's like, oh, the woman is the one that's kind of saying the things. And so I always kind of saw them as strong, smart women almost playing down to these dumb guys. Totally,
Michelle Newman 43:28
exactly what I thought, Carolyn, that's what they're doing in it, because like this man who she wants to ride from, she's trying to catch him, right? He thinks he's the bad guy. So basically, they're using their sexuality in a very smart way. Because they know what it's they know that the guys are just going to be like good Buddha,
Kristin Nilsen 43:46
but always with the upper hand never is never in a way where they're infantilizing themselves or submitting to them everyday. No always have the upper hand. Exactly.
Carolyn Cochrane 43:54
And I think I picked up on that when I watched that. I mean, that was something I thought was smart for them to do. And I just think also, it's the lens through which we look at these shows. For one thing, we talked about these nipples, showing it and not many years before it was burning your bra was how you showed the world that you were a feminist like you can't tell me I have to wear bras. So that was almost a sign of feminism that Karen grant absolutely picture we show when she's like dutiful era stuff that so was that not maybe a way to show that as well. The problem? Unfortunately, the show had a little bit was some of the feminists were really mad at it because they thought it was, you know, objectifying women and all of these kinds of things. And then we had the group's like the Moral Majority and everything, you know, saying this is provocative and all of that. But again, we point out that this was the fashion. I mean, you couldn't walk down the street.
Kristin Nilsen 44:49
Everybody was doing it. It wasn't just them. Right, exactly. And what I always say is even today, because I will oftentimes since the pandemic, I will go braless I'm sorry, I don't it. There's too much to be contained here. And sometimes I just gotta let it go. And Mike will be very uncomfortable. Like, if we're out outside inside the house, he really enjoys it outside the house, not so much. He's very uncomfortable. And I just keep telling him, You were just socialized to see my breasts as sexual. And you think that people are looking at me sexually right now that it's a status socialization, somebody back in our history decided that they needed to be contained. Well, you know, God didn't intend them to be that way. Well,
Carolyn Cochrane 45:33
and DAX would tell you it is like, almost a uniquely American thing, because it was the Puritans who came over, oh, my God, and were to set this country up in the colonies and all that kind of thing. So we're based on a Puritan society. If you go over to European countries, I mean, there's new beaches, all of that. I mean, there's not this stigma attached to nipples and breasts. And all of you know, that kind of that is so true.
Kristin Nilsen 45:59
And it's Puritan thinking, yeah, that also
Michelle Newman 46:02
we go back to, you know, these three women being so strong and so capable and so smart. And so why should then we ignore that they're also sexual beings? Right? Right. Why are they why is why are we slaves to? Yes? Why are we supposed to tamper that down? Why can't they be all of it? And certainly wouldn't you want young girls and young women to see that you can be all of it? That's
Carolyn Cochrane 46:25
right, exactly. And this author of this article also points out, you know, where are the voices all up in arms when Starsky and Hutch all of a sudden have to play like these undercover hairdressers or something and their shirt, you know, skirts are on buttoned all the way to their belly buttons and their hair? You know, just here is all pumping out?
Michelle Newman 46:45
It's a double standard. Yeah,
Carolyn Cochrane 46:47
exactly. So why is you know, why would that be? The real
Kristin Nilsen 46:49
the litmus test is this? How did those three women make you feel about being a woman? Like you were a child and watching it? What did you how did it make you feel?
Michelle Newman 47:00
Well, the answer is, what I think we're about to get into is how many of us at age 789 1011 12, wanted to be them? So that's how it made us feel. Yeah, right. It was a powerful feeling. And we didn't want to be them because we wanted to look pretty, we wanted to be them to
Kristin Nilsen 47:22
virus you're answering right there. Right. That's the answer.
Carolyn Cochrane 47:25
This is how I shot a gun. Armor
Michelle Newman 47:31
resting on her wrist. She's fair. She's so badass. Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 47:36
I think I actually have
Carolyn Cochrane 47:37
a gun, a gun, like not a real, you know, like a cap gun or something like that. You know, we've played it real. We were gonna get the bad guys
Michelle Newman 47:44
at the root of every little girl who played Charlie's Angels. It's because they want it to be badass.
Kristin Nilsen 47:49
That's right. Yeah, that's right. And we're doing this. From a historical perspective. Those people talking about juggler TV. We're doing it in the moment. Here we are. 45 years later, we're 55 year old women looking back at what how we evolved with that seed planted in 1976. And all of us are sitting here going it made me feel badass. So go to hell juggler, TV. Yeah,
Carolyn Cochrane 48:11
exactly.
Kristin Nilsen 48:20
saw like a lot of things from our childhood, this show was more than entertainment for us. Clearly. Right? It became a branding opportunity for young girls. It went beyond which Angel did you like best? And it expanded into which Angel did you want to be? We were crafting our identities around these fictional characters, and it went way beyond their nipples.
Michelle Newman 48:45
So it did Yeah, right.
Kristin Nilsen 48:46
And did you guys play Charlie's Angels when you were kids? Clearly Carolyn did because she just shows us she showed us how to shoot again. Yeah,
Michelle Newman 48:53
I mean, I just thought they were so just cool. Seems too small of a word. But that's what it was. It wasn't like I was looking at them going. Oh, those are three beautiful women. It was these are like superheroes without capes.
Carolyn Cochrane 49:05
Like that was our go to game when we left the house in the morning and come back to later and solved crimes all through my neighborhood with my best friend, Kelly Reese.
Michelle Newman 49:16
Can I ask you a question? Yes. So if you played this all summer long, I have to know like, say you had a story going? And oh, time to go in. Do you remember if you resumed that seems like did you keep the same story going all summer? Or do you think every time you play there was a different bad guy a different situation?
Carolyn Cochrane 49:33
I think sometimes it was to be continued. And yes, we left out a cliffhanger. Yeah, other times I think we wrapped it up before you know Yeah, cuz
Michelle Newman 49:43
like the the episode was over. Yeah. Yep. So we
Carolyn Cochrane 49:46
could cry. And we were sitting around talking to Charlie like Job well done, girls. Oh, that's
Michelle Newman 49:51
so fun. We for
Kristin Nilsen 49:53
sure played Charlie's Angels. I played it in whatever friend group I was in and a good portion of we always Hold them games for some reason, like, what game we're gonna play. We're gonna play Charlie's Angels. A good portion of the game was the decision was the assigning of the identities. And there was a lot of negotiation involved. I don't remember a lot of argument because it's really interesting how these three angels shake out is that all three of them seem to be equally popular and everybody had a favorite. There was just an awful lot of planning, but Who who are you going to be? Who are you going to be? So we are not the only ones who played Charlie's Angels. We were not the only people who molded ourselves after these women. There was tons of Charlie's Angels merch that was for us. I don't think our I don't think adults were buying any Charlie's Angels. merchantpro Did that come
Michelle Newman 50:41
as we all sit here? You guys are Charlie's Angels. But no Kristin? No adults? No stupid.
Carolyn Cochrane 50:57
Yeah, they had all the things. I mean, there were the dolls. There was like an adventure band. There was I think it was Charlie's Angels hideaway, kind of.
Michelle Newman 51:07
Yes, they had a hideaway. Oh, I feel like my sister might have had
Carolyn Cochrane 51:10
that. And it was really cool and modern, kind of see, let's
Michelle Newman 51:14
not forget my sister Carolyn is your age. So like, I'm, I'm the little sister. So she was as intuitive as you were. So that's why you might have been saying to Ronnie, your little sister, who's my age. Come on, we have to go play Charlie's Angels. I'm gonna assume it was my sister that played it with her friends. And when they wouldn't play it with her. She's asking me to write. But I think she had some of those things. Yeah, the hideaway sounds very familiar.
Carolyn Cochrane 51:37
I had forgotten about the hideaway actually, until I was doing a little research. And we all know about the lunch boxes, we've got puzzles, we've got board games, I found when I was doing some research, the Charlie's Angels pocket book communication center radio. So it looked like a purse. But in some radio, and I think it was a real like a radio. That was a pocket book.
Michelle Newman 52:03
And Episode One, Kelly needs to she needs to talk to Bosley. So she's up in the room and she takes out. It's like the size of a loaf of bread. And it's a blackboard. But if that's not big enough, she then stretches up the antenna that goes about another three feet. And that's her little that's her secret phone. Last night, she's she's she's she's in an office she's not supposed to be in and she needs to take a picture of some files. So do you guys remember in all these types of investing, investigating shows, she takes up the little tiny? It's like the size of maybe like a lipstick. And you you push it together and pull it apart to take the picture? Yeah, you know, you kind of go click click and didn't you
Kristin Nilsen 52:45
want one of those I want? Yes, it was always to take a picture of stolen files.
Michelle Newman 52:51
And you don't look at you don't put your eye in the camera. You hold it way down low in front of you. And you just go push, push like you go push, pull, push well.
Carolyn Cochrane 53:01
Speaking of files, I the episode, I watched angels and chains when they're in, they're undercover in a prison. But Jill has to look through a file cabinet to find a file. And while she was doing it, it was just like I was whoscored Due to these moments where they're, you know, they only have a little bit of time. And they're like, because who goes through file cabinets anymore?
Kristin Nilsen 53:24
Oh, just the files alone. Your who's your dude by file files by
Carolyn Cochrane 53:29
Lupino? manila folders with? Yeah, with all the info in there.
Michelle Newman 53:34
They want to capture one of the guys you know, they want to capture him confessing. So they kind of Sabrina and Kelly kind of look at each other. Like, are we on the same page here. And Kelly opens up her giant tote bag and kind of glances down and then the camera angle. And you see her giant tape recorder pushed with record and play and you ended a zoom.
Kristin Nilsen 53:57
Panasonic
Carolyn Cochrane 54:00
Oh my gosh. Funny.
Kristin Nilsen 54:01
I want I want to get back to the merch. But I wanted to just say something about that because it makes me realize something that I never thought of before. Another reason that we love these women so much is because they were this little girl gang. And they were deeply connected. They couldn't give each other a glance. And that look would say, Are you are you going to record this on the big tape recorder inside your purse and they didn't have to say any words, and they would maybe give a nod. And so I think the friendship and the connection between these three women was also something that was so
Michelle Newman 54:31
attracted so much. Yes, their friendship was yeah, it
Kristin Nilsen 54:36
was women supporting women that had the secret language between them one
Michelle Newman 54:40
wasn't better one. It wasn't competition, right. They didn't get jealous of each other. Yeah, they supported each other. You're right. I
Carolyn Cochrane 54:47
loved it. I also realized looking through some of my tiger beats, they were in Tiger Beat and teen beat they were considered. Yeah, I have a Cheryl that poster actually that hung on my wall. All let's face it, Tiger beaten teen beat, I don't think at least at the time, those were not targeted to boys. And we have, you know all the people we've talked about our celebrity crushes. But those were our crushes as well. They were crushes them and so they were on those pages and on our walls.
Michelle Newman 55:18
I have a Tiger Beat from 1978 right now or 77 that has the Charlie's the first official Charlie's Angels fan club that you can Oh, I remember all and you were gonna get it. You were gonna get an decal for your T shirt. Could have been this one. I mean, think about
Kristin Nilsen 55:33
it. If they if this was just about jiggle TV, the merch that they would have provided for us would have been lipstick, it would have been makeup, it would have been a hairbrush and Amir or a hair ribbon, it would not have been the hideaway and the secret purse phone and stuff like that. Right. This was something that was much bigger than that. Yeah,
Carolyn Cochrane 55:53
they were adventure figures. You know, they weren't dolls. They weren't Barbies, that they were gonna have adventures in their adventure van on the way to the height. Yes.
Kristin Nilsen 56:02
Okay. Do you guys remember where the the Charlie's Angels cards came from? They were trading cards. And then so you collected all the trading cards, and then you and you turn them over? You had to collect all of them in order to make a puzzle? Yes. Did they come with?
Carolyn Cochrane 56:20
They might have come with gum. But yes, the puzzle part is what I remember. Yes. And
Kristin Nilsen 56:24
I didn't like a corner, I didn't have the corner. And there was like this panic to get all of them. If somebody knows where the cards came from, it must have been a pack of gum kinda was probably too and a lot of government
Carolyn Cochrane 56:33
that was right there with like wacky packs. Okay, you know, those kind of things?
Kristin Nilsen 56:38
I think in talking about all of this stuff, even talking about the consumerism of it, it's making it very clear. The answer to all of our questions about was this good for us? Or was this bad for us? Which brings us back to the title of our episode, which is which Angel are you? That is what we're here to discuss, because that was how our culture worked. In that moment, we were all choosing an identity to aspire to. And we are now going to reveal to you who our angel was who we thought we were going to grow up to be.
So Carolyn, would you like to go first and tell us who your angel identity was as a child?
Carolyn Cochrane 57:19
I would be happy to and I want to preface it with the angel identity that I was. While I played the game. Charlie's Angels was not the angel that I aspired to be. And one Oh, then that's a good point. Yeah. So sometimes because of who your friends were, and all those things, maybe a big sister, you kind of got what was left. So yeah, I played Charlie's Angels with my best friend Kelly. lived across the street from me. Kelly was a year older. And by default, her reasoning was her name is Kelly. So she gets to be Kelly Garrett. And there was no arguing with her. I really wanted to be Kelly yet, but obviously I couldn't be. My Kelly friend had a really cool yellow 10 speed bike and bikes played a huge part in our Charlie's Angels. portrayal. We were all through the neighborhood. It was like, you know, the robbery happened on a certain block stream. We had to get over there. And for a while, we had walkie talkies, and those you know, it was it was real, and we were into it. So she's Kelly with her cool yellow tennspeed. So I've got two people to choose from, for whatever reasons. Actually, I think I know. I chose Kate Jackson. I chose to be Sabrina. Looking at the car vehicle comparison, I had a three speed Sears free spirit, which to me lent itself more to the pinto that Sabrina Duncan drove versus the Cobra which would have been what fair I what Jill drove and then my friend Kelly, if you remember Kelly Garrett drove a Mustang. So a yellow Mustang. Yeah. So it all worked out. And so yeah, so I had the reliable this three speed is gonna with the upper handlebars. I didn't have to worry about getting it backache, I sat my seat was even like, old lady. See, I was I was reliable. I was gonna get you there. I could put you on my handlebars. So yeah, so I was by default, Sabrina Dunkin. But that's not who I aspired to be. But that's who I was. And
Kristin Nilsen 59:25
why did you aspire to be Kelly? What was it inside you? That was like, I want to be who
Carolyn Cochrane 59:29
I thought that she was the complete package. I mean, if I'm gonna be totally honest. Let's say I probably didn't think Kate Jackson was the prettiest. But she was the smartest. Kelly was the complete package. She was beautiful. But she was also smart. She had the feathered hair. She had it all and so I think that was probably my reasoning.
Kristin Nilsen 59:53
A lot of people say that Kelly was the prettiest, but she was also the most demure and I wonder if that something that appealed to people. She was definitely the most feminine to like even in the clothes that she wore. She wore dresses were the other two generally didn't. She just had a different style a different persona that was a little more feminine. Hmm. That that
Carolyn Cochrane 1:00:15
might have played, unbeknownst to me like it wasn't a conscious Yeah. decision. I think those other ones were pretty conscious. Like, I don't want to be just the smart one like the nerd. That's probably what I thought for Kate Jackson. Even though my hair I'm gonna have to find this one photo where I had the Kate Jackson hair. If you guys remember, Sabrina's hair, it was kind of Tony to kneel up until like the top. And then it feathered like, but just the littlest the top feathers. Yeah, but the other feathers all rolled under. And I've got a photo. I rock in
Kristin Nilsen 1:00:50
the Sabrina. Michelle, who was your angel identity? Who did you want to be when you grew up?
Michelle Newman 1:00:54
My sister, like I said, I think was really the only one that I played with. And she had the exact Kate Jackson hair that you're talking about Carolyn, and she loved Kate Jackson. So that was easy. Like, again, you guys know my sister. She dictated who I liked and what I could be when we played things together. And you guys, I think it's not rocket science. It was the long brown hair. I have long brown hair. Yeah. I'm eight years old. I'm going with the one that has the same hair as There you go. That's
Kristin Nilsen 1:01:27
cool. You
Michelle Newman 1:01:28
know what, though? Honestly, I think I love how you just said she was demure. And I also feel like she had such understated grace, very much. And poise. Right? She just was so classy. I think at age eight and nine even. I was in awe of of Kelly and I still am I'm still in awe of Jacqueline Smith to this day. I love looking at her little videos on Instagram. But yeah, there you go brown hair, brown hair.
Kristin Nilsen 1:02:02
But I like but it's interesting, too, that you identify with the with the grace and class and things like that. Because that is that's something to aspire to. Also, for me, there was no contest. It wasn't like, Who do I like best. It
Michelle Newman 1:02:16
turned out that she wanted to be Charlie.
Kristin Nilsen 1:02:18
Honestly. I almost had no feelings whatsoever about the other angels because I was so enamored with Sabrina Duncan, I always got to play Sabrina because no one else wanted to know, Sabrina so we never had to fight for my place in the game. I wasn't even really a regular watcher of the show. I can't even tell you what night it was on. But because I went to bed at eight o'clock, which was really embarrassing for me that I had such an early bedtime and it was an eight o'clock show. And so I really didn't watch it until maybe summertime reruns or something like that I really had to play catch up. But it didn't matter that I wasn't a regular watcher of the show. Because this was in our culture way. It was what people were talking about. It was in the magazines, it was in Tiger, but I saw enough of it to know I want it to be just like her. When I was in fourth grade, we had an assignment, we had to do a big project on our hero, we had to choose a hero and it would involve art, it would involve writing it would involve a letter. And so I immediately was like, Oh, my hero is Kate Jackson. I start doing I start doing my writing. And little by little I can tell that by what people are saying and by looking at their papers that other people are choosing people like like their mom and Harriet
Michelle Newman 1:03:36
Tubman. Yes, yes. And
Kristin Nilsen 1:03:39
I was like, Oh, terrible. And I felt such shame having chosen somebody from TV. It just appeared that I had done it wrong. I was doing it wrong. And so then I like grabbed some random, like relative. That was my hero. And it wasn't true. There was because that she was my hero. She was my actual hero. And so then doing this assignment was such a letdown for me, because I didn't get to do Kate Jackson as my hero. So at the time, I'm not sure that I could have told you why I loved Sabrina so much. But as we've mentioned before, I was 30 years old when I was born. And I was I was like I was like a small adults. When I was a kid and my family will tell you that I was steady. That's their word. For me. I was very steady. I can think of only two times in my childhood and adolescence where I lost my shit where I acted out emotionally or dramatically. And that was when the first time was when my parents made me go to bed when the part three of the Fonzie loves Pinkie episodes was on they wouldn't let me see the conclusion. And they sent me to bed that goddamn eight o'clock bedtime, you guys it was really cramping my style. And then the second time was when my parents were going to chaperone the middle school dance.
Michelle Newman 1:04:56
We went about when you wanted to go see what was the movie you wanted to go see what Stein twins and then you ended up having two
Kristin Nilsen 1:05:03
times. Okay, I've got three times when I acted out emotionally dramatically. That's true. Yeah, I wanted to go see famous my parents that are appropriate. And I and I wrote a nasty gram and take them to their bedroom wall. Oh, it was bad or something about how they were abusing me or something was really bad. Outside of those three events, in my childhood, I kind of walked around like a four foot tall, Sabrina Duncan. Yeah. And so I think the identification was real, like we had a compatibility of operating systems. I was mesmerized by Fairfax's beauty as mesmerized as the next person. But Kate Jackson's kind of no nonsense approach to femininity was exciting to me. That was how I felt about what I wore and how I presented myself. And so it was like, she was validating my tastes back at me that this is yes, this is this is a way to be a woman in the world. You can This is a completely legit way to be a woman. You don't have to have bows in your hair. You don't have to wear dresses. And that just kind of made me feel like I was doing it right. And, of course, we always come back to and Sabrina was the smart one. The savvy won the thinker, and that to me was something I did want to be I admired that and they did aspire to that may be more than fair, his hair was exciting to me. I have more. I thought it was more exciting to be the savvy one.
Speaker 3 1:06:27
So Cunningham brings the diamonds into this country and he's supposed to deliver them to Bialy. But Tracy sets him up to be ripped off by thieves who get the diamonds. And they don't even know what they've got.
Kristin Nilsen 1:06:39
We're not the only ones who talk about which Angel are you, you can go online and you can take a test to find out what the changes are. We're Not Making This Up. So there's a there's an online test at brain fall.com that we all took. And I'm just curious, when you took the angel test, did you get the same identity taking the quiz as you did in your heart? Does it match your identity? Again, this is from brain fall.com. And they say hello angels. This is Charlie and I have an assignment for you. Take this quiz to find out which of my angels you are, then crack an international art theft ring and put a blackmailer on ice.
Carolyn Cochrane 1:07:17
I got the identity that I'd always wanted. You always knew. I'm going to like send this to my friend Kelly. And say I could should have been Kelly because and I want everyone to know this is what it says which original Charlie's Angel are you. Then underneath it says you are Kelly Garrett exclamation.
Kristin Nilsen 1:07:38
And she printed it out? And
Carolyn Cochrane 1:07:42
yes, this is why I am Kelly Garrett. So this is what after answering all the questions. And this is a very accurate description of myself. Okay, you can throw a beat down on an arch criminal while while wearing a Haute Couture dress and never spill a drop of your champagne. You're always ready to get your hands dirty. And yet you still maintain an elegance and a love for the finer things in life. Thank you very much that would describe me to a tee.
Kristin Nilsen 1:08:08
And that totally lines up with what Michelle said too about the class and grace. Right. All of that.
Carolyn Cochrane 1:08:16
Is that in real life too. Right guys?
Kristin Nilsen 1:08:18
Absolutely do that. She's like, please, please tell me yes.
Carolyn Cochrane 1:08:23
So yes, it was finally I was. My heart was happy because I actually am Kelly Garrett.
Kristin Nilsen 1:08:29
I'm Kelly Garrett. You should get a shirt that says I am Kelly Garrett. Okay, well, you guys I was just as overjoyed as Carolyn because when I took the quiz it said you are Sabrina Duncan. I was so excited. And this is what they say Sabrina Duncan is the ringleader of the angels. Your sharp mind and eye for detail will serve you well in the field and in life. prepared for any situation you can do everything from defusing a bomb to wearing the heck out of a pantsuit. Viva Sabrina.
Carolyn Cochrane 1:09:08
Yes, and can I just say Kristin can rock the heck out of a pantsuit? We are doing visuals. Yes, she does. That pink one.
Kristin Nilsen 1:09:16
I love my pink pants. Yeah, I love it. Well,
Michelle Newman 1:09:20
if we need any proof that this quiz is not sanctioned by Mensa. The results said that I was jell o sporty athletic one know you guys you guys. Of course. Of course my aspiration was to be Kelly. But I thought for sure with the honest choices I made that told me I was Sabrina because every choice about being naked. And there's a lot of these in this quiz. Like at a nude beach or to capture criminal I was like no, thank you. I'm gonna keep my bits covered. You guys it's hysterical to me that I got gel. I cannot throw a ball straight in order to I literally chose Zero have any of the sporty options on this? I mean, we're gonna go back now and visit hero.fandom.com This is my proof that I should not be Gil. Gil is the sporty and athletic angel and a scene coaching a kids basketball team playing tennis, swimming, bowling skateboarding. You guys, Joe lives on the beach. I don't even like the beach. Especially Megan. You get sand everywhere. She was a centerfold. Again, I don't want to be naked. Sabrina though. For Sabrina they like to tell us that despite being a beautiful woman, she is the one least likely to rely on her feminine charms when going undercover her roles are always such that allow her to keep her clothes on. And always the case with the other angels. Kelly though you guys I want to be Kelly when we play because Carolyn can do sports. And Carolyn can't really dance Carolyn can't dance and she says she tells us all the time she can't dance. But Kelly according to hiro.wiki.com She goes belly dancing and a Hookah Bar. She appears in a dance performance at a Las Vegas casino. This is the best part though this is well worth visiting hero.fandom.com. For things like this. Kelly is the only angel to have passed herself off as being from another galaxy and actuality her extra terrestrial exploits are limited to jumping a motorcycle from from one ramp to another as a carnival performer. I think one of your merit Jake. Jerry rigging a sabotage seatbelt to avoid falling from a biplane during aerial acrobatics, and safely landing a passenger jet and all without messing up her gorgeous hair. I was robbed. You heard that Charlie?
Speaker 1 1:11:51
Everything Sabrina. And I've already made arrangements for you three to go to prison.
Speaker 3 1:11:55
Prison. You've got to be kidding, Charlie.
Unknown Speaker 1:11:59
It's no joke angels. Say that again.
Kristin Nilsen 1:12:09
Okay, so yes, Charlie's Angels gave us impossible beauty standards to live up to. But it was also the first time in television history where we saw women truly kicking ass without having to choose between being pretty and being smart, or being pretty and being tough or being pretty and being strong. Because those two things are not actually related. femininity and strength are not mutually exclusive. It's not just the dowdy Girls with Glasses who can be smart, which is what TV had always told us before. It's not just the Butch girls who can run and jump and throw Charlie's Angels was expanding our view of who we could dream to be. Thank you for listening today. And we will see you next time.
Michelle Newman 1:12:50
And today's episode was brought to you by Sabrina Kelly and Jill obviously, as well as Scylla, Elaine, Barbara Hellene, Heather, Christina, Linda, Claire, Lance, Kevin, Courtney, rock, Hal and Melanie. These are just some of our wonderful patrons and one time donors that make all of these conversations and all that we do possible. Thank you so much.
Kristin Nilsen 1:13:21 In the meantime, let's raise our glasses for a toast to Jill, Sabrina Kelly, Chris and the other ones. Cheers. Cheers. Cheers. The information opinions and comments expressed on the pop culture Preservation Society podcast belongs solely to Carolyn the crush ecologist and hello Newman, and are in no way representative of our employers or affiliates. And though we truly believe we are always right, there's always a first time the PCPs is written produced and recorded in Minneapolis, Minnesota, home of the fictional w j m studios and our beloved Mary Richards, man and and keep on truckin and may the Force be with you.