Andy Gibb: Our Everlasting Love - Part 2

Unknown Speaker 0:00

No

Unknown Speaker 0:05

You're right.

Unknown Speaker 0:06

I was chasing you. I was telling you no, that was

Kristin Nilsen 0:13

when the world just keeps getting bigger and bigger. And remember he has not yet hit his 20th birthday.

Michelle Newman 0:24

That's insane.

Kristin Nilsen 0:26

It's insane. This is the album that produced that poster. We just talked about the one on my wall, the red satin shirt, the arms outstretched Come on, girl.

Speaker 1 0:36

Do this. Bathrooms had no sound like we're saying. Come on get

Unknown Speaker 0:50

we're gonna be great. We'll make you

Michelle Newman 0:54

welcome to the pop culture Preservation Society. The podcast for people born in the big wheel generation who didn't have Tinder, but they did have Tiger Beat. We

Carolyn Cochrane 1:04

believe our Gen X childhoods gave us unforgettable songs, stories, characters and images. And if we don't talk about them, they'll disappear like Marshall will and Holly on a routine expedition.

Kristin Nilsen 1:14

And today, we're still saving one Gen X's most legendary crushes the baby brother of the Beegees who filled up the whole spotlight all by himself. And again,

Carolyn Cochrane 1:25

I'm Carolyn.

Kristin Nilsen 1:27

I'm Kristen. And

Michelle Newman 1:28

I'm Michelle and we are your pop culture preservationists.

Kristin Nilsen 1:34

Welcome back to the continuation of our tribute to Andy Gibb. And every time I write that, I tried to think of some kind of descriptor like Andy Gibb, The Who was he wants you who did the bla bla bla bla, but then you guys, I just can't because he kind of defies description. He's just Andy Gibb. That's all you need to say. And everyone knows who you're talking about. So welcome back to our tribute to the life of Andy Gibb. We're going to drop you right back in the spot where we left you last week, which was a discussion of the songs on his first album in the United States called flowing rivers. We discussed I just want to be your everything. Words and Music to many looks in your eyes. Love is thicker than water, Starlight. What was the other one? We did a lot. Yeah, we did. Oh, yeah. Let it be me. Let me okay. Yeah, we did all that. And the song that was supposed to be his next single, which might be the Andy Gibby. A Song of any song on any of his albums. The one that sounds the least like the Beegees on the most like him. The album's title track flowing rivers, but it was withdrawn in favor of the tsunami that was to come.

Michelle Newman 3:00

Shadow dancing this single is released in April of 1978, just seven months after the flowing rivers album. It's crazy, crazy fast. And two months before the album was released in June of 1978. And the world explodes. The song climbs to number one in the summer of 1978 honestly isn't not the soundtrack of all of our summers of 78. That is right. It was not only the song of the summer, it was also the biggest song of 1978.

Kristin Nilsen 3:32

And that shard, the biggest songs of 1978 is good dominated. So just to get a picture of how the Gibbs dominated the charts in 1978. Here are the biggest songs of the year. Number one is Shadow dancing, followed by night fever. Then you got Debbie Boone in there with you light up my life. Then you come back to a Gibson with staying alive. But wait, there's more. At number six the sixth the biggest selling Song of the Year is how deep is your love. Number eight is Love is thicker than water. Number 11 is Greece. Number 14 is emotion by Samantha sang written by by Barry Gibb. It's just unbelievable. I'm not sure we'll ever see this in history ever again.

Michelle Newman 4:15

It's like the Gibby best year ever.

Kristin Nilsen 4:17

Give me this year ever. So shadow dancing continues to attract top notch music musicians if you recall Joe Walsh was on the flowing rivers album. And on Shadow dancing we have Don Felder also from the Eagles playing on the song I go for you done and Nana and then you also have members of the band Firefall who did the song you are the woman that by the way is such a good song. All of those people are on the shadow dancing album. And of course there are some gifts. So the single shadow dancing sends the album shadow dancing into the stratosphere where it produced another string of hits Andy Gibbs world just keeps getting bigger and bigger. And remember, he has not yet hit his 20th birthday.

Michelle Newman 5:07

That's insane.

Kristin Nilsen 5:09

It's insane. This is the album that produced that poster. We just talked about the one on my wall, the red satin shirt, the arms outstretched. Come on, girl.

Michelle Newman 5:19

Do this put on bathrooms, or apartment?

Kristin Nilsen 5:24

Or you know, and that bathroom fantasy you guys I'm not sure I ever thought about what was underneath the bathrooms? No, because we're not at that age yet. I couldn't get there. Right. That was me bumping up against the next stage would be imagining what's under the bathrooms Of course. Yeah, right. Yeah, exactly. That image. And that image goes along with some of my favorite songs of all time, but do not ask me to choose a favorite because I cannot. I won't. I won't do it.

Michelle Newman 5:54

I can choose a favorite Andy Gibb song and it's such it's so on original. But an easy favorite is I just want to be your every shot will always always be I will listen to that song 15 times on repeat to this day like, and it's on so many playlists. I'm going to tell you though I have maybe something that's a little bit of an unpopular opinion, but whatever. On shadow dancing, Shadow dancing is not my favorite of his songs. But don't throw it all away on that album

gives me just like shiver. I don't know what it is about that side

Kristin Nilsen 6:40

do I do and I'll talk about it later. I do I know what it is because I guess the same shivers

Michelle Newman 6:44

I don't dislike shadow dancing, but I don't put it in like my top four Andy Gibb songs. You know, mine

Kristin Nilsen 6:51

are all at number one. They're all it's a tie. Oh, yeah. It's a tie on number 135

Michelle Newman 6:56

songs at number one.

Carolyn Cochrane 6:57

Michelle, I'm gonna ride your coattails. And I'm going to say that my favorites were whatever was probably popular at the time and everyone was singing but if I had to pick one right now, I probably say our love don't throw it all away.

Michelle Newman 7:11

I love our love. It's a good one. Yeah,

Kristin Nilsen 7:15

that song is the ultimate love song. It will it will put you into a trance. Basically it will put you into a love trance is what it does. Yeah,

Michelle Newman 7:24

that song and had the pleasure love are less. They're such sexy song. They're

Kristin Nilsen 7:27

cut from the same cloth. They really are. And it's okay that they're cut from the same cloth. This does not diminish Andy gives contribution to the world. It is that synergy of his voice and his writing along with his brothers writing and his brother's production and his brothers backing vocals that produce something magic and we are grateful for it. Okay, I will Okay, I will I will try and choose one favorite. Oh, I think my favorite today at this moment in time is everlasting love.

Right, it's such a sweet crushy song. It's such a happy, like, you can feel that it's a bright song, you can feel the brightness coming out of it. And I have such a good association with it. I'm driving in a pickup truck, sitting between my grandparents. Oh, and we're driving through rural Oregon. There are mountains on either side of us. I don't know where we're going. But wherever you go in rural Oregon is going to take you a long time to get there. You're not going to be in the truck for just a few minutes. You're going to be in the truck for a long time. And I'm very happy to be sharing this space with my grandparents are in Clara. And we turn on the radio and we're searching for something to listen to. And my grandma is turning turning turning the knob turning the knob there are no buttons Remember, we're just she's just turning, turning. Yeah, there's

Carolyn Cochrane 9:07

probably not a lot of stations in rural Oregon too.

Kristin Nilsen 9:09

Not a lot. Not a lot. And and she passes everlasting love. She goes past it. And I don't know if I did anything. I worked hard not to do anything because I didn't feel it was my place to request a song or a radio station. It was their car and I didn't feel like I could say oh, that song. I just wasn't like that I held my cards close to my chest. But something in me must have shifted. And my grandma turned it back. Oh, and my grandparents did not listen to popular music. My grandpa was a musician. And he had very strong opinions about what you should and should not listen to and popular music was in the category of you should not listen to popular music. And yet my grandma turned it back to everlasting love. And I remember just like relax Acting like my whole body relaxed. And I remember feeling so grateful. wordlessly. I was wordlessly grateful to my grandma for picking up on whatever I was laying down. And like it was, like she knew was like she was reading my mind. And she just turned it back. And we sat there in silence. And nobody said a word. She didn't say, Oh, do you like the song? Or Oh, who is this? Nobody said a word. We just drove along in the pickup truck listening to the songs.

Michelle Newman 10:44

That's a core memory, right? Yeah.

Kristin Nilsen 10:48

I love that. But after all of this gargantuan success that has come from flowing rivers that has come from Shadow dancing from this record breaking string of hits that he has had, here's what Andy Gibbs says about shadow dancing. And this is quoted directly from Wikipedia. He says, I am so much more confident now after doing the second album, dealing with the pressures of proving to myself that the first one wasn't a fluke, and that I could write a second album. So now I'm a lot more confident. And although that is a positive statement he's making. This is the sentiment that would haunt him, mostly with regard to living up to his brothers, especially Barry Barry was his idol. Was he successful on his own? Could he be successful on his own? Or is it just because of them? That is the demon that haunted Andy Gam hmm,

Michelle Newman 11:40

I read a quote, this week from Andy that said, I didn't have any confidence. I always thought people were buying my records as an extension to the BGS. And I never thought there was an individual thing in there that they liked.

Carolyn Cochrane 11:56

And you know, the fact that he had had to say that that's what I think this quote, you read, Kristen, and then that one, Michelle, this is on the forefront of his mind the fact that he's actually verbalizing this, like, we would have all thought he was confident. And so

Michelle Newman 12:11

this Yeah, this struggle, though, is on the front. Because these are the these quotes are so contradictory, right? The one Kristin said, and I'm like, Oh, yeah. And you but you know, he's got this struggle that's just driving. I feel like Yeah, his life. I feel like when he says these things that Christian, you said it had to have just been such a false narrative that he was trying to, you know, to portray, because we know, and I'm using air quotes here, because how could any of us really know that he probably was not more confident. Barry actually said on that VH, one behind the music episode. That's my source right now. That that Andy did not have the confidence he had early on when he was hungry. And first starting out writing and performing. Barry said he was chasing something unattainable,

Kristin Nilsen 12:54

which is really to be bigger than his brothers, not for purpose of competition, but to seek approval from these men that he idolized. So clearly, he didn't want to be the one who was lesser than them. And he needed some kind of proof that that was the case and yet he got proof every day in every record sale he got proof but he just didn't believe it. And part of the story that is trotted out I'm not gonna say this is untrue, but I think it's it villainize is the Beegees a little bit was that he wasn't asked to be one of the Beegees that that would have been the thing that would have solved his his all of his problems. We know that that one thing couldn't solve all of his problems. But would it have made an impact? Because for him, the ultimate approval from his brothers would be being asked to be a member of the Bee Gees, which never happened. But there are so many reasons that that was never going to happen. Very logical reasons that actually show him as the greater talent. First and foremost. Like we said before, he was the whole package on his own. Don't Morris out front.

Michelle Newman 14:04

Stop saying, I love you. But you guys when I go back to my 1978 year old self, I didn't see Andy Gibb as the fourth BG. Yeah, I know. The beach is where I do a lot. And I know we had to get was yes, separate entity, in my opinion, but yet Andy Gibb is constantly thinking he's connected. And we have to wonder and this is just this is just me wondering, you know, Barry, you know, the same producer write the same he's writing so much of his stuff. I just want to have to wonder if he could have ever completely gotten away like, wrote an album where every single song was his own and he had a different producer and he was completely detached from the brothers. Yeah, as much as they, you know, seem to have love and respect and admiration for each other. I just have to wonder if that might have made a difference if he was assigned entity completely.

Kristin Nilsen 14:54

It would, how could you be How could you be How would you be and would only make a difference to his own? Internal, it would only work if he believed in himself like chicken or the egg. Right? I think that you could have made him a BG and that original unhealthy Original Sin. That's not what it is. But the original thing that haunts him, it doesn't go away. He's always chasing it. And we say this a lot when we talk about people in the media that speaks to mental illness, that is not a situational thing. Yes, you have this, this giant overshadowing him by his brothers, you have this unique situation in which he could never catch up, he could never be as popular. Well, but he was he was more popular. But he doesn't see because because he doesn't see it. That is where we see depression and anxiety and, and something that takes real work with a good therapist to get through getting that number one album by yourself wouldn't solve your problem, correct? No.

Michelle Newman 15:53

And when you when you know the road, he is going down at start at, you know, age 1920. Yeah. And that just kept getting, you know, more intense and everything that we're gonna talk about in a minute. That is an illness that doesn't just happen, you know, like, unrelated to anything else. It doesn't happen in isolation. Right. Right. That is, is caused by, you know, it's a sickness, it's an illness, and he had so many different signs of that. And it's, it's tragic. Again,

Carolyn Cochrane 16:22

it speaks to what I think of him being born into this family. And you're constantly just in their shadow chasing, like Chase dimension, your legs aren't as low. I mean, even when you're little little. And you're just here. That's the epitome, that's probably who's getting all the accolades. I mean, you see that, you know, from the parents, as well as the society, culture, people. And I just feel like that was so part of who he was when he stepped onto this planet, that that just kind of informed so many I'm just want to be with you. I want to catch up with you. I want to be part of you. And yeah, and what that can, I don't know how that can inform how you walk through the world, I think

Kristin Nilsen 17:05

well, and at the same time, what that means is that if he let's say he did get the approval that he needed, let's say he did become one of the Bee Gees. Let's say he did get Barry Gibb honoring him and telling him how talented he was and how good he was. You guys all had happened. Do you think Barry Gibb didn't tell him he was talented every single day? Exactly. So it just it would? It doesn't make a difference? If you have this illness? None of I'm sure Barry Gibb beats himself up every day. Like why didn't I help him understand how gifted he was? And I'm sorry, Barry, I'm not sure that you can make a change there. Right. Yes, I

Michelle Newman 17:39

believe that, at some point living with someone with an addiction at some point, you have to absolve yourself of all that kind of responsibility.

Kristin Nilsen 17:46

Yeah, that's right.

Carolyn Cochrane 17:48

I have a question to throw out there. This is just something to mulch on, or munch on or whatever you do. But do you think maybe that Barry could have been living a little vicariously through Andy because Barry wasn't going to be the solo act? Really, you know, at least as we knew in the 70s and early 80s? He I don't know. I don't know.

Kristin Nilsen 18:10

Well, it was certainly an extenuation and an extension, right? Oh,

Carolyn Cochrane 18:14

sure. Sure. I mean, that's total speculation, as is most of the stuff I'm saying about? Oh,

Michelle Newman 18:21

yeah. And I think to a certain extent, all of our discussion, especially when we're talking about someone who had a mental illness that none of us can No, it has to be right. It was just sharing our own feelings, right? Listeners, we're not trying to diagnose anybody or anything like that. We were just bringing our own feelings to the table and our own experiences. Well, and

Kristin Nilsen 18:38

there's so much more that we know today that we did not know then so that we could make informed speculation. That makes sense. Sure. We, there are things that we can recognize now so easily, even though we're not diagnosing him, but we can see quite in ways that they didn't in 1978 what this problem is and how you deal with it. It's, you know, addiction does not does not exist in a vacuum. And it just, it just breaks your heart

Unknown Speaker 19:09

keeps me as far as Envira if I'm here with him, No, I can't answer. Oh, my love can't raise you.

Carolyn Cochrane 19:25

So Andy Gibb is the biggest star in the world. It was nothing short of a meteoric rise, fully eclipsing his brothers in less than a year. And here's what Peter has to say. But fame has its limitations and its obstacles. Another more modern observer of this human condition. The recently departed comic actor Matthew Perry of friends fame, said in his 2022 autobiography, you have to get famous to know that it's not the answer, and nobody who is not famous will ever truly believe that spot on total. Leung Yes, it is. Andy was destined for fame, His talent too great to be denied. But fame was not the answer for him. And it never provided him the safety, security and self belief he longed for his entire life. As a child growing up in the shadow of his brothers, he struggled from his mid teens with drug use and alcoholism, in an attempt to mask his pain and insecurity and deal with his mental health. This impacted not only his career, but also his relationships with his wife, daughter, family, significant partners and lovers, band members and employers. I mean, really everyone he had relationships with, it's so sad. And

Kristin Nilsen 20:43

I mean, I just does, I want to say thank you to PETA for writing that because it is, I keep saying the word lovingly, I wish I could come up with another term, but everything is so lovingly rendered. It's as if she can see the she can see the lens through which her father saw where he was seeking fame, but he had fame and he was still seeking fame, the fame was not filling him up, you need more fame, it and it was just this vicious cycle, and she understands it. So clearly, I don't want to make any assumptions about pitas. existence, but I would imagine she's had a great deal of therapy. To figure this all out. She she writes this, like a very studied person, right, a person who has really been working on this for her whole life. It is worth mentioning that at a certain point, his wife, Kim says I'm I can't, I can't deal with this. I can't, I can't put up with this any longer. So they are married for such a very short period of time. And it is in that shadow dancing era, where she learns that she's pregnant, and he promises that he'll get better, he cannot. And she goes back to Australia, which is another very grown up thing that we're asking of a child she too was a child. And I think that was a very, very probably a very difficult decision she had to make, and a very grown up decision she had to make, and she was doing it for the sake of her child. Again, I'm guessing I don't know, pitas mom, but she was living amongst all of this fame. The music industry, I'm sure she was seeing stars upon stars upon stars. And a lot of people would have been really starstruck by that, and figured out how to stay and she was like, I'm out of here. This is not this is not working. So they divorce very quickly. No, not very quickly. At a very young age, I should say their marriage doesn't last very long. She goes back to Australia and PETA is born. Andy Gibb does not meet his daughter until she's two years old. He will meet her in person only one time, which according to people in his world, and his band, his the people who loved him that this was a huge source of pain for him. I can't imagine what it would be like to be both of them to be both Andy and PETA and to be living in this situation. There are really no words for it. And at the same time, they were children trying to make these decisions.

Michelle Newman 23:14

And they're in there in lies. I'm again, I'm assuming PETA, But therein lies the bulk of our therapy, just because it was the bulk of mine. Right? How do you not place blame? And how do you not place blame on a parent and say, you know, what about me?

Kristin Nilsen 23:31

What about what do you do with your anger?

Michelle Newman 23:32

So yeah, what do you do with your anger? Yeah, Kristen. Kristen, what do you do? Let me check my, well, I'm just kidding.

Kristin Nilsen 23:42

So it is during this time that his addiction is really growing quite rapidly and dangerously. He is 20 years old. He has a young child in Australia that he hasn't seen. He will speak to her on the phone over the next 10 years occasionally. So they so PETA does feel like that like there, there was a continuing relationship. But of course, as you know, it's never enough. It's never when you're the child. It's just it's never enough.

Michelle Newman 24:09

I would love to know from PETA, how if those conversations were awkward for her, or if they I would love to talk to her about that. Like, that's great. Did you feel awkward? Did you feel ashamed? Like did you feel like you were supposed to be giving more to the relationship even though you're what a seven year old child or a little

Kristin Nilsen 24:26

kid? Yeah, and I'm sure as so many people our age Noah who had been in the same situation who had an elusive father and got those occasional phone calls. Yeah. Was that an exciting thing? Was it a scary thing? Was

Michelle Newman 24:37

it a Yeah, scary? Yeah.

Kristin Nilsen 24:40

So it is during this time when he's just 20 years old and his addiction is growing rapidly that he is diagnosed with a heart problem. And this is this will be the little nugget of information that is not really shared with people too much. I feel like you If this had been something that he attended to, if he were older, right, if he were older and more mature, would he have been like, holy shit, I am ruining my heart with my drug problem. I've got to do something. But you're not a grown up, right. And you're in the throes of addiction.

Michelle Newman 25:20

And and also you're unable to decide if you're an addict, you're unable to do something without some serious help, because let's not forget, you know, what's causing this as just a lot of pain, right? Yeah, causing, I'm sure. escape pain, whatever you want to call it. I mean, there's a million reasons, but

Carolyn Cochrane 25:40

you don't want to feel the feeling that you're feeling you'd want that to go away. You want to numb?

Kristin Nilsen 25:45

Yes, that's a really important point, Carolyn, because that right there is the central feature of addiction, right? If you don't like what I'm feeling, how do I make it go away? And if it's not going away, I'll just do more, right, I'll just do more.

Michelle Newman 25:59

And so it's during this time after his marriage has fallen apart, and his daughter is born. But he's really disconnected from that event that he has linked with other women and the tabloids constantly. But where is the truth? I mean, do we really know? And at least for me, it doesn't really matter. Now, back then that's always like, Oh, who was Andy Gibb with because we didn't know he had a wife and a daughter. You know, where is the truth? Was he with Bree? Asman? You know, yes, we think he was Olivia Newton John, Susan George. I mean, there's so many different women who were linked to him in the tabloids, but Andy Gibb was not Alario he truly seemed to be just looking for love. I mean, we don't know were some of these people just good friends. And he once said, If I'm suggestive, it's in a nice way. Luckily, no one's ever been hurt. A few girls have passed out. That's all so innocent. And he's he's darling. I don't know. It's just, it is another one of those situations. Where do we know? We? We know a little bit about Maria Jasmine, and we're going to talk about her for just a minute. We know they met on the Donnie and ratio in October of 1978. And they sing a duet together. Sometimes when we touch they were babies. She was 19. He was 20. And then they dated which is a weird coupling. Right? It's

Kristin Nilsen 27:22

weird. It's but it is. It is Mormon dating, which is not the same.

Michelle Newman 27:26

Yeah, side hugs side. Hi, Dr. Day we call it

Kristin Nilsen 27:30

there's no drinking. There's no right.

Carolyn Cochrane 27:33

Well, I've got to tell you that coupling and those duets. I went down a rabbit hole. And I've I've watched them several times. Okay. You guys these duets with Maria cosmet. I almost don't have words for them. Okay. But sometimes when we touch I don't know if you've watched it. They there's there's this undeniable attraction and it is it's sweet.

Unknown Speaker 27:58

And sometimes the honest is two and a half two

Unknown Speaker 28:14

wanna hold? Till we both bread and juice? Tell me

Carolyn Cochrane 28:29

there's nothing like sexy about it obese?

Michelle Newman 28:31

Yes. But it's like, although he was already a husband and a father. So I guess it's not my baby. But she didn't really seem that seems like

Carolyn Cochrane 28:40

this was Stars In Our Eyes. Just really sweet and innocent, even though we're talking about sometimes when we touch kind of a thing and there. And maybe it was just me. But I was hooked. There is something extra on a different level on a different plane with this. And then they sing suddenly, they have Gosh, I don't know five or six that I have watched. You guys go back, watch it in slow motion if you have to. There is something undeniable about that. About that attraction. And it's so sad at the same time because knowing what we know now. Yes, it doesn't have it doesn't amount to anything. Because I think much to what you just said, Kristen. It's probably more mandating. I think we have mom and dad Osment maybe hovering over this.

Michelle Newman 29:32

I think mother and father put an end to that real quick. Yeah, right.

Carolyn Cochrane 29:35

And as we have said he had his addiction issue at the same time. I could just feel that Murray was so torn I really watching those videos again. Just

Unknown Speaker 29:51

shoot

Unknown Speaker 30:00

It sounds to me

Carolyn Cochrane 30:12

I'm sorry, I'm just acting this out here. I feel like these were like two starcrossed lovers that if she had maybe been a different would have been a different time. I don't know that maybe they could have just Romeo and Juliet. They could have gotten together. And it makes

Michelle Newman 30:27

Iran Yeah. Reported by Maria Jasmine herself. They cared for each other. They liked each other a lot. She's actually said to I mean, he was out partying she could you know, she couldn't drink Coca Cola. She, she had to marry within the Mormon faith. She She was definitely pressured to end things with him. And she said on many talk shows, you know, she had to take action to have him stop calling her because he cared for her. Yeah, did you guys see? Did you then watch four years later, just four years later, in 1982 they performed a duet on solid gold. And it's just once knowing that they cared for each other. It must have been so uncomfortable. He sings I did my best but I guess my best wasn't good enough. Looking at her and then Marie, start singing we're back to being strangers wondering if we ought to stay or head on out the door. And unlike that Donnie and Marie, one that you're talking about Marilyn, watch the beginning when he starts I did my best but his eyes darts like he cannot hold her gaze and when she starts singing She can't either her eyes flicker but then they get more comfortable with it. And in my mind, I'm doing a Carolyn here I'm constructing a whole story of they then realize, Wait, this is we did mean something to each other. Because once they get to the chorus and everything, they are locked their eyes, your mind.

Unknown Speaker 31:50

Now we figure out what we keep doing.

Michelle Newman 31:59

What we do and you know, to this day, Maria Osman has just wonderful, lovely she says he's a beautiful man. I mean, this was a recent interview she did on like a talk or for the viewer or something said he's a beautiful man. And I don't think she's not talking just about as good luck. She really really cared for

Carolyn Cochrane 32:22

Yeah, yeah, it's just breaks my heart. And she

Kristin Nilsen 32:25

is well aware of the difficulties that he had, which would be the things that people would really judge him for and, and not have such loving feelings. But I think he was he once commented that he and his brothers were the marrying kind. And I think that's such a strong strong statement for somebody at such a young age. I mean, I think it was 19 or 20 or 21. When he said it my brothers and I are the marrying kind. The Beegees of famously been married for decades and decades. They all had starter wives at the beginning when the when they were young and impulsive, you know, 19 and lasted a year. And I think Barry Gibb has been married to the same woman since 1970. And Morrison, Robin had long term relationships like that. And I think Andy Gibb fell into the same category, even though his marriage has very, very, very young marriage fell apart for very, very, very obvious reasons. I think what he desired was not to conquer women. But to have this connection with somebody like you're observing in these performances with Maria Osmond. And then even after these relationships would end, he would still be connected to these women. They would always remain important people to each other. So he for instance, he bought a yacht and called it my Marie, long after they had broken up. He had a racehorse named Libby's choice named after Olivia Newton John, they never actually had a relationship, although people really wanted them to have a relationship or wanting to put them together, but she was 10 years Right? To me, did

Carolyn Cochrane 33:58

you think that like spit you know, like crush on my big sister's best friend kind of? That's

Kristin Nilsen 34:03

right, very innocent, friendship oriented, but clearly very, very close. But people of course in the media want it to be something more and so there was always speculation. And this could be true that the male role in Xanadu was supposed to be Andy Gibb. Some people even say he had the role and he lost it because of his addiction. And I have always thought that that guy, whoever he is, I don't know who he is. Because nobody does. I have always thought that guy looked like Andy Gibb. If it had been Andy Gibb, oh my god. Can you imagine Xanadu with Olivia Newton John and Andy Gibb on roller skates Come on.

It is worth mentioning though, that all of the women that he was linked with in the press, all of them speak of him so glowingly as if they love and adore him, even though they weren't romantic partners, or maybe they were romantic partners in the past, but now they're not anymore and generally that would produce some rancor. Yeah. And doesn't appear that he made people feel any rancor. Right.

Carolyn Cochrane 35:23

And it appears that it wasn't just these women who he had relationships with that talked so fondly of him. Every buddy that commented on him, talked about his kindness, how he was empathetic, how he was just sensitive. All of these adjectives that what personally I think would be wonderful in a man, but at the time, I'm not sure that these were qualities that we held up in a society as manly to be sensitive to be emotional about things. And I, again, can't help but wonder if this was another part of himself that he was trying to numb.

Kristin Nilsen 36:07

I think you're right, Carolyn, I think that that might be a common thread amongst men who suffer from addiction, a great deal of sensitivity, and you're not supposed to be that sensitive, and you're not supposed to have those kinds of feelings. You're supposed to be suave and be a cowboy. And you know, the whole Ronald Reagan, Marlboro Man situation. And if you don't live up to that, then there's something wrong with you.

Carolyn Cochrane 36:30

Right. And again, as a woman, I find those qualities just attractive. And yeah, it doesn't surprise me that the women that he was involved with, even after romance, if there was or whatever it was gone, that this was something that kept their relationships, just strong and kept them in touch. And like you said, all those women said that about him that he was so kind. And

Kristin Nilsen 36:58

so you can what you can extrapolate from that is that his addiction kept those relationships from continuing. But his person, his personality, the person who he was kept those friendships intact, which is wow, what I mean, that's a legacy right there. That alone is a legacy.

Michelle Newman 37:17

And that just makes it even more clear and obvious that his addiction was the ugly monster, right? I think a lot of people because of all the salacious tabloids, the headlines, the stories equate that he was right. And it's secret, it's separate from him. And I think that's a really important thing to recognize. Yeah,

Kristin Nilsen 37:37

and especially if you are in relationship with that person, if you use your father or right, if you can separate those two things. It'll go a long way to helping you seek forgiveness or I mean, give forgiveness is what I'm saying. I would hope I would hope in the biography of Andy Gibb, the one that I said that I wished I hadn't read. However, the author does say something interesting from Olivia Newton John. He says in our correspondence, she emphasized how sweet of a friend Andy was. Those were her exact words. Olivia wanted to not only honor Andy's memory, but protected, he had his problems, but she would never ever discuss them. She felt strongly that his legacy should be his music and what a remarkable talent he was. And it's easy to see why they were such good friends. Both were incredibly sweet people who loved making others happy with their music. They were comfortable in each other's company, and it showed. Yeah,

Carolyn Cochrane 38:34

yeah, I bet he could be himself around her.

Kristin Nilsen 38:37

So he is because of these relationships. Because of his addiction. He is in the tabloids constantly. People seem more interested in his love life than in his music. And that's because after shadow dancing, he had trouble getting his next album out. There's this overwhelming difficulty that he had his addiction, his self doubt his depression. It all gets in the way of his next album, the pressure to succeed. Shadow dancing is immense. What if he fails? So his next album? Yeah, Carolyn just shuttered right that writer's block immediately would consume you right. His next album is called after dark is the one where the lightning strikes are coming through his thumbs. It takes too long to come out. He feels too much pressure. He has writer's block. He has trouble showing up for recording sessions. Barry Gibb ends up singing a lot of the vocals on the album. And Barry Gibb has written a larger share of the songs so we don't get as much Andy Gibb on this album as we would like. It does produce a number for hit desire.

Which honestly, I don't remember. I don't maybe they didn't play it in my area. I don't know. But I think that that time period where we're only seeing him in the tabloids, and we're not getting more music, I think it had an effect on me in that I wasn't paying as much attention anymore. And when we know that when we're children, and we hear about adult problems, we don't want to deal with that.

Carolyn Cochrane 40:17

Right. And you know what else I kind of equated with the timing of all this. This was when we were in that part of history with just say no to drugs, like drugs was so sad, and not even it wasn't even on our radar, why he might be doing them. We just knew that anybody who was doing any kind of drugs was bad. And so I know at least for myself, that's probably when I just kind of switched it off my up. He's just another one. What a selfish jerk for you got rich and famous. Now he's just doing coke off of, you know, glass coffee tables everywhere.

Kristin Nilsen 40:49

And you make assumptions and that you're right. That's exactly what we were taught. We knew nothing of addiction, correct. We had no idea it

Carolyn Cochrane 40:56

was easy as just say no. And he wouldn't say no, was kind of what I mean. Remember, that was the big line. And

Kristin Nilsen 41:02

that's right from Nancy Reagan. Reports are that he tried so hard and so many times to just say no, but we all know that's not how addiction works, right? So the album after dark, it doesn't sell as well, partially because of the aforementioned things, but also because he can't promote it. His tour is cancelled when it's clear that his health is not good. He's not well enough, Willie show up night after night for concerts. And the decision belongs to Robert Stigwood. And he makes the call there will be no after dark tour. This is really when Andy Gibb loses me. And and it makes sense. And the public stops paying attention to his music, I think, well,

Michelle Newman 41:46

if you look if you google image, Tiger Beat covers 1981 He's not on any of them. It's Matt Dillon and Scott bayeaux. You know, it's Matt. Michael. Damian. It's, it's because that also is what happens, right? You age out? Well, you know, he's 22 he's

Kristin Nilsen 42:02

21. Right? He's still in his house. So but he's not

Michelle Newman 42:06

like he's he's gone from he's gone from the teen magazines.

Kristin Nilsen 42:10

There's no more posters. There's you know, but yeah, but the the Enquirer sure loves him. Alright, so that's all for us

Michelle Newman 42:17

too. And right. And even so during this time, he's on TV constantly. Still, he's doing Bob Hope specials talk shows hosting solid gold with Marilyn McCoo. And it's on the John Davidson show, where he has his incredible make you with Victoria principle. Our pal John Davidson Are you guys? That's amazing. So the story is this. Andy had publicly said he had a crush on Pam from Dallas, Victoria principal. And she'd heard he had said that. So she had written him a letter thanking him for his very kind, lovely words. And she stamped it, put it in her purse, but never mailed it. So somehow, John manages to have her come out when Andy has a guest on his show. And if you go on YouTube and watch the clip, it's not only incredible, but it's adorable. He's like speechless, and he's obviously starstruck and enamored with her, it's very clear that he has a crush on her. And the story is three days later, they went out on their first date. And that is, and you know, despite the age difference that a lot of people criticized, I think he was eight or nine years older than him. It was a true love story for them. I really think it was.

Kristin Nilsen 43:30

And that that that clip of the John Davidson show is really where you can see who he is for real, because they surprised him. They really surprised him and he really is the boy next door he is like a kid in your class who has a crush on on somebody. And it's she's kind of quite adorable.

Michelle Newman 43:48

She's kind of a little bit I think she I think there were some I think there was some instant chemistry because she's a little flustered as well. Yeah.

Kristin Nilsen 43:58

The tabloids love this story. They want this this romance to be something they can keep churning out churning out putting on the cover putting on the cover putting on the cover, but the addiction is still present, and the relationship isn't going to last.

Michelle Newman 44:12

So basically, I mean, there's a lot of again, is it speculation I don't know that they did drugs together. Right? And so I think then that people, right so people often portray Victoria principal as the villain because she ultimately it got to a point where she ultimately regardless of if they did drugs together or not, it got to a point where she gave him an ultimatum. She says it's the drugs or it's me and she says, as much as she knows in her heart, he wanted and would have chosen her. Yeah, he couldn't he chose the drugs. I don't know how that makes her a villain. If that ultimatum led him to spiral, those were his choices. Isn't his illness that, you know, she's not responsible for that? So yeah, apparently he was he was despondent, and

Kristin Nilsen 45:07

that she understands that it was not him and that it was the addiction because she's Oh, she does. Yeah, I know he wanted to choose me she does. So he couldn't. And that's where she lays down her boundary. And they break up. This is where she becomes the villain, because they blame his drug addiction on her that she left him and it sent him into a spiral of addiction. And she even has said that she kept her mouth shut during all of that she could have spoken up. And she could have said, that's not how it happened. But she felt to do that would re injure him, right. So people just, they just love him so much. And they want to protect him so much. It really says something about who he was that they went out of their way to make sure that even in when he did horrifically hurtful things that they're still trying to protect him. So that was something that PETA give Weber really wanted us to emphasize that she does not hold anything in her heart, but love for Victoria principle. And I'm going to read to you what she says, I have gotten to know Victoria well, and that she is a kind and good woman who did everything she could in her time with my father to save him from himself. She has all the love and gratitude in my heart and is no means to blame for anything that happened to my father. The media had been so cruel to her. No woman should be made to take responsibility for the fate of a man she chose to love.

Carolyn Cochrane 46:31

Yes, yes, yes. And you know, it's the media again, because we we don't know that he has struggled basically all of his life. It almost seems like, Oh, we've got all the ingredients for a great story. This older woman, she's on Dallas, and now there are drugs, but the addictive things were all along. But when we is that, you know, the readers of National Enquirer See, look what happened. Of course, it's her fault. Yeah. Oh, that's just heartbreaking. And I'm so glad that PETA has that relationship with her and recognized amazing Yes,

Kristin Nilsen 47:03

and that she really wants people to know, really that is important to her. That Victoria principal is recognized for what she did. And I think we talked about in one of our encore episodes about the tribute the Victoria principle did just days ago on Andy Gibbs birthday, she posted a picture or posted a video of her throwing roses into the ocean on his birthday. And she didn't even put his name. She just put some emojis but everybody knows what this is. She is paying tribute to this man that she had, like a one or two year long relationship. 45 years

Michelle Newman 47:38

ago. Yeah, it wasn't equal two years. It wasn't right. It was like a little long.

Kristin Nilsen 47:42

And who was was in the throes of an addiction that certainly must have caused her a great deal of pain. And yet she has this love in her heart still, to this day. It's just It blows my mind. It blows my mind. No, I agree. Okay, so. But despite this difficulty, Andy Gibb continues to get on the horse. He maybe doesn't need to record albums. Maybe he doesn't need to do music in this way. Maybe he can be a stage actor instead. And he wins the role of Frederick in the LA revival of Gilbert and Sullivan's Pirates of Penzance and he's

Speaker 2 48:18

awesome fully open to my uncle situation name is COVID are two people that will make the right narration I shall tell her I am now my duty and my moral sense is that I don't know what to do about the pending consequences. Now I do not wish to perish by the soul of

Kristin Nilsen 48:37

his co star is Pam Dawber of Mork and Mindy fame, who is a trained opera singer. And she's also instantly enamored of him and his talent. She becomes a forever friend and fan of Andy Gibb, and this turn is Frederick in Pirates is a comeback of sorts and his role in Pirates leads to one of the most important developments of his career. He's cast in the Broadway production of Joseph and the Technicolor dream company.

Carolyn Cochrane 49:28

But the beast continues to rear its ugly head, all of those opportunities dissipate when he has trouble showing up. Solid Gold. Joseph, he's let go when they can't rely on him, despite the fact that he's getting great reviews and people love him. This makes me so sad as I'm reading it. It's just like, oh gosh, I couldn't even see now. At one point there was even talk of a Tony nomination for Joseph. But we know that depression and addiction are liars and they don't allow you to believe that you are a good and worthy person. Send in cash. That's kind of what I said before it's, that's there's nothing that's going that you're going to believe that you're a good and worthy person, no matter how many people tell you. No, and it doesn't

Kristin Nilsen 50:12

matter if you get nominated for a Tony, no, you still think you don't deserve to be on that stage. And oftentimes they say, you he wouldn't be showing up for a performance and he would be locked in his room and people are trying to get him out of his room, and he would just couldn't leave his room. And again, that's a hallmark of depression. This is not just a single, a single beast, right? We have a we have a very deep and difficult mental illness that and we don't know if he was treated in any way. But we do know that in that era, right? therapy was not the thing that it is today. treatment for depression is not the thing that it is today. I just wish I just wish that they had had the treatments back then that they do now. I really do. So, throughout all of this timeouts, no matter how much difficulty he caused, personally and professionally, people always talk about him in loving ways. It's unusual and notable given what addiction especially can do to relationships. This is so highly unusual.

Michelle Newman 51:12

It is because you think about especially when he's not showing up for performances and plays the number of people that was affecting their job, their work, yeah, their paycheck their whatever. You know, and they still people are still people still talk I mean him in for

Kristin Nilsen 51:30

Marilyn McCoo is how often did she end up hosting solid gold by herself on a moment's notice? Because he didn't show up. And you don't hear her saying anything badly about which to me points

Carolyn Cochrane 51:41

out that he did show that real Andy, you know, enough times and often enough that people could tell they could recognize that this other monster beasts that we're talking about. That was a different entity that was not an ad, if that makes sense. Yeah,

Kristin Nilsen 52:00

it does. It makes perfect sense because sometimes you can't discriminate between the two. The producer of solid gold Brad Lachman said Andy was a very charming, vulnerable and charismatic performer. He clearly meant well, he wasn't being difficult. He was going through problems he couldn't deal with. He wanted everyone to love him. He had so much going for him and he just couldn't believe it.

Carolyn Cochrane 52:24

My heart hurts.

Kristin Nilsen 52:25

I mean, people love Andy Gibb, and PETA I think she knows I think she knows that. And she says it like this on her website. Andy was quite simply loved by everyone who knew him. And you would be hard pressed to find anyone to speak of him as anything other than one of the kindest humans they ever knew. His demons were too much for him in the end, and Andy passed away five days after his 30th birthday in Oxfordshire, England, from myocarditis, a heart condition brought about by his years of constant drug abuse. That day, was the day that my childhood died. Oh, it's one of the handful of days that has really lodged in my heart. And it's for a variety of reasons. It's not just the death of a celebrity, a lot of it is all the things that we just talked about right now about who he was as a person. And I think those of us who fell in love with him, I'm putting, you know, quotes around it, those of us who fell in love with him, I think we fell in love with those parts, too. I think we knew that about him the nice part, The Boy Next Door part, the kind part, the shy part, the humble part. We all knew that too. And so that goes along with the sadness when he died. I was with my friend Colleen and my friend Martha on the day that he died. We were sophomores in college. And it's a day that we that we hold dear in our history. We're still friends today. And my friend Colleen sent me this message. When I told her that we were doing this episode, she said Andy was the first celebrity crush I lost. It was March 1988. My sophomore year in college. I don't remember who told me But initially, I thought it was a terrible joke and couldn't figure out why anyone would pull such a stupid prank. And when I realized it was true, my stomach churned and utter sadness began to sink in. I remember sitting in Kristen's dorm room knowing I would never be his everything. Oh, I know. I mean, day moved into evening, but time felt suspended as we felt the ache of his death. I'm sure there were papers to write and chapters to read, but none of that mattered. And again, the man who I would never meet was gone. We had a go to truckstop for late night studying called the Big steer. That night. We took no books, just our heavy hearts and we ate disco fries with cheese. We drink we eat coffee and mourn the loss of our teen heartthrob. And I have to say I am so grateful to Colleen and to Martha for that day because I needed to be with people who felt The same as me on that day and we sat there in that stupid diner until the middle of the night kind of just staring at each other.

Michelle Newman 55:07

It was had to have been so surreal for you and unbelievable. But to have those friends with you to grieve together, had to have been so important. It

Kristin Nilsen 55:21

was I'll never I'll never forget it. And I have, in my mind, I feel like I heard the news. And I opened my door, and I put my face out into the hallway. And there was Colleen, looking back at me. Yeah. Like in disbelief, and we just gravitated toward one another. Yeah. And

Carolyn Cochrane 55:38

you know, I hate to say this, but I believe that the day you know, when I heard I was like, Well, what do you expect when you do drugs? I mean, honestly, I was not sympathetic or empathetic at all, at that point, just because I didn't know all of this stuff. And it was just kind of the, I don't know, the tape running through my head that yeah, these celebrities who think, you know, they're all that they have all this money. They do drugs. I mean, it wasn't even a drug overdose that he died from me. He was from the myocarditis. But I'd venture to say that was kind of hidden in some of the news, or I just ignored it salute or I was just like, you know, they might have said drugs contributed or something. I was like, Yeah. And I'm embarrassed about that. But that's kind of how I probably think I took the information. And I wasn't surprised.

Kristin Nilsen 56:24

The tabloids immediately picked up on the fact that it was a cocaine overdose, which was not true. In fact, he had been to rehab and he had actually gotten a record deal. And he was starting to write music. And again, the writer's block was haunting him, he could not get out from underneath this pressure of Will I be able to live up to other people's expectations. And this heart problem the he had had, for 10 years that really nobody knew about, was causing him a great deal of pain. And they took him to the hospital several times during that week. And in an instant, in a single instant, the doctor asked him a question, turned around, turned back, and he had breathed his last breath.

Michelle Newman 57:12

That's it. And, and this is where we have to remember that. And it gives death wasn't just tragic for us. A family lost their youngest child, after trying for years to help and watching his decline. And Peter lost her dad at just 10 years old, which is a story I'm super familiar familiar with, not just the losing her dad at 10. But hardly ever seeing him and having an image of him in her mind. In my mind, that only magnifies sense since their death. The constant wondering of what if he had lived and it's a lifelong hole that honestly never can be filled? Because we don't have enough memories to fill it.

Kristin Nilsen 57:56

Oh, wow. Oh, my gosh. So yeah, yeah, these are people's lives that we're talking about, right? Why am I foking? Focusing on this very sad part. I think it's because it helps me. It helps me acknowledge who he was because so many of the things that people say, just are more testament to who he was, and that people loved him so much. And then when I see that people loved him, then that makes me feel that makes me feel good that he was loved. And so this quote, in particular stuck with me, this is from Morris. He says the loneliest thing I felt was when his coffin was left outside the wall where they put the coffin inside. And we were driving away. And I looked at the wall, and I saw no one else was there, just his coffin lying there against the wall. And I felt like he had been abandoned. And we all wanted to go back and just stay with him because he was by himself.

Michelle Newman 58:53

They're still taking care of them, you know? Yeah.

Kristin Nilsen 58:55

That was their little brother. Yeah, this is very, this is, and I think, right, we have to kind of pull ourselves together here. You

Carolyn Cochrane 59:06

know, I do have to say that I am so grateful that we did this episode. My initial kind of thought was okay, yeah, Christian really wants to do it. And he it was a big deal. My sister, you know, had his poster on the wall. But it became something so much more as some of these episodes do. I was so touched. I did a lot of actual journaling about this as I was doing some research. I love Andy Gibb. I'm so sad. He isn't still here. I love his music. I printed out some of the lyrics. I'm so grateful for this opportunity because otherwise I would have never learned some of the things I learned. Just it touched me in a way that I was not expecting, I guess and I'm grateful that we we did this because as I said, I am in love and I might just hang out A Speedo. Yeah, and just saying it right about my computer.

Kristin Nilsen 1:00:06

I and that surprised me to Carolyn. Because I also took this on like, Oh, this is Kristen is crashing, and I'm going to bring these guys along with me. But you both saw his humanity and you both were introduced to his music really for the first time even though it impacted you in 1977. You now have that with you, his legacy lives on in the two of you, even though you're coming to it just now. I mean, it's it really makes me feel happy. Well,

Michelle Newman 1:00:33

Peter says it so perfectly. A son, husband, father, lover, brother, uncle and beloved friend, and now also in his afterlife, a grandfather of two. It's easy to forget that Andy was so much more than just a musician, and actor. He was a great lover of animals, a keen fisherman and water lover in general, and an enthusiastic and capable photographer. In the period before his passing, he achieved his dream to become a licensed pilot. Although his passion for music was undeniable, this outstanding young man was lost to us far too soon, leaving many of us to wonder what may have become of his all too short life. If he had been given the opportunity to pursue one of these other passions. We wouldn't have the gift and legacy of his music, but maybe his loving family and friends would still have him out. And then she ends by saying, Andy Gibb was the brightest star in the sky for a period in musical history. We can never forget. In the immortal words of Bernie top in your candle burned out long before your legend ever did.

Kristin Nilsen 1:01:41

Yeah. What could he have done? Yeah. And I love the fact that she's had what if he wasn't a musician? What if he had pursued one of these other things? Right? You don't have? We don't know. Right? So here's my new fantasy in the afterlife, and he gives us proud of himself. He feels love, I'm gonna cry now. It feels the love of his daughter. And he's able to love her back in ways he wasn't able to while he was here, he sees clearly the value of his music, and he feels confident and secure in who he is and what he has to offer the world. In the afterlife. He sees what other people saw in him, and he's happy. I don't have access to the afterlife. But I have every reason to believe that this can be true. Thank you for listening today and going on this journey with us may you to see your value each and every day.

Carolyn Cochrane 1:02:33

Thank you to each and every one of you for your support of this podcast, especially to those of you who support us with your monthly donations on Patreon and your one time donations on our website. Today you helped us honor a fellow human being who deserves this hour of your time. And

Michelle Newman 1:02:51

if you or someone you know is suffering from depression or addiction, please know that help is out there. Text your five digit ZIP Code 2435748 That's help for you to reach a confidential treatment referral hotline.

Kristin Nilsen 1:03:09

In the meantime, let's raise our glasses for a toast to the life and legacy of Mr. Andrew Roy Gibb. Cheers, cheers. The information opinions and comments expressed on the pop culture Preservation Society podcast belongs solely to Carolyn, the crush geologist and hello Newman and are in no way representative of our employers or affiliates. And though we truly believe we are always right, there's always a first time the PCPs is written produced and recorded in Minneapolis, Minnesota, home of the fictional w j m studios and our beloved Mary Richards, man and Anna who keep on truckin and may the Force be with you